How small is too small?

[Riven]

A question for responsible breeders: How small is too small for a breeding female?

I know that there is a lot of different thoughts on this, and I know that chins aren't like flour, they don't all weigh the same per size. But where does the limit come in? For example everyone knows that it's not healthy to breed a 400 gram female...

In my opinion size is a factor of quality in chins no matter where you are from, or background you are. I'm not saying it's the only factor, nor the most important, but it is a factor that should be considered when breeding. To me 600 grams is the "line", every rule has exceptions of course, but within reason. I have a female that is 585 in breeding, she's a younger female about 9 months, and I'm sure she'll continue to gain some as she gains age, her lines tend to grow until they're about 2.

[crazy4chins]

What does size have to do with weight?
Saying a chin is to small based on weight is like saying saying someone that is 205lb and 6foot 2in is shorter then some one that is 250lb 5ft 8in.
I also haven't seen judges us a scale at any show to determine if a chin weighs enough.
Size and weight aren't the same thing and a chin shouldn't be evaluated on size by how much it weighs.

[Riven]

If you read the first post it said weight is not directly relavant to size, BUT if you hear that a full grow person is 70 lbs you know they're small no matter how tall they are.

Weight is directly relavant to muscle mass and bone density. Animals with lower bone density tend to have more problems with broken or weak bones, which is genetic as well. Plus there is the issue of fur length, as since an animal with longer fur would look bigger then it really is.

But since you put it that way... my dwarf chin doesn't really LOOK that much smaller than my other chin, and 350 is pretty close to 425, which is allmmmoosttt 500, so maybe I should start breeding her.

[dawn]

I don't breed but from my prespective I would rather see more gms on a chin being bred, that way if something goes wrong there is more room for error weight wise before they go below the threshold of no return.

[Vyxxin]

I have to agree with Dawn there. When chinchillas get sick, one of the first things to happen is weight loss...and heavier animals can stand to lose more weight than thinner animals.

That aside, I think we are breeding towards bigger pelts based on show standards. Weather it be from weight or size...it's happening. Consider this, if you pelted a 600g animal with long fur and an 800g animal with short fur (both appearing to be the same size) which do you think would have the larger pelt area wise? The 800g animal would. And truly, if anyone honestly thinks you can have a 500g animal that looks like an 800g animal then perhaps they need their eyes checked because that much of a difference IS noticeable. Finally, since I started breeding I have noted that most often kits receive more of their mothers conformation characteristics than their fathers. This is only my experience but due to it, size and conformation of the mother matter more to me than that of the father. I'd be more inclined to breed a 550g male than a similar female. For females, I do not like to go below 650g. Most of my females average 700g-800g with a few above that. None of my males are below 700g...but like I said, I would consider a lighter male before considering a lighter female (lighter referring to weight)

Anyone that's been breeding a while knows that you can have two animals with weight difference that appear to be the same size...that doesn't mean they are. Everyone says they ARE the same size...but like I said about the pelt...an 800g pelt is going to be larger area wise than a 600g pelt regardless of how similar in size the two animals appear.

[Megan.]

Since I'm not breeding for pelts, who would make the better pelt area wise is useless to me. Sure, I do apply the fur quality and color to my animals..

That said, If the animal has what I want- Good fur, good color, good belly, etc and is 550 grams I'll use it. I'm not looking to breed 900+ gram animals. I'd rather go for good color, good fur, and a good belly on my white bellied animals.. and strive for size later. Most of my animals aren't large, weight wise. My males average about 600 grams. The females 650-700 in most cases.. Some are heavier, coming in closer to 800 grams yes- but thats not what I strive for.

When I first started breeding, I went by the 600 gram "rule". Now, I look at what the animal has.. If it has everything going for it, but lacks some size/weight.. I'll let it go. Granted, i'm not about to breed a 400 gram animal, because that IS imo small, and would be smaller size wise..

[wallride]

In my opinion, I wouldn't breed a female under 550g. If she had fairly good body mass for her weight, and I feel she could handle the process of giving birth, I would put her in. Now, if I had a male with exceptional color or other fur traits, and was perhaps in early 500's, I would probably breed him with a larger female with stellar conformation.

I breed for improvement. Most breed for improvement. This is just a general example, but at shows, size is usually faulted. Now, yes, some shows are more pelt oriented, but others are not.. others are for herd improvement. If a small animal is culled on the show table, then why shouldn't they be culled in a breeding herd, unless they have something substantial to offer?

IMO, there are far too many small animals or those with less desirable traits out there being bred, ESPECIALLY with certain mutations. I see the "proven" females in classifieds, and hope that the pictures are misleading or the weights are a mistake.. Certain mutations have a bad enough rep for being SMALL, weak furred, or just all around crappy.. Why breed something that will most likely continue the trend? And if you're breeding those animals.. Why breed AT ALL?!

[Riven]

I guess what I think is how people will say "i'm not breeding for pelts" (no offense to you Megan) but they want to raise high quality animals that will do good at shows... honestly do you think that the judge is up there saying... hmmmm, yup this animal is kind of small but would go good with that male down there so I'll give it a first because it COULD have really nice kits with that male? The judges look at the animal on pelt standards. If they don't think would this animal make a good pelt, they say would it's offspring make a good pelt. Sorry it's the truth. I've never seen a 600 gram animal take a show... so obviously size is important since we all know it's easier to find smaller quality animals than larger animals all together.

[SilverCelica]

The pelvis size is far more important than the weight of the female... weight should be pretty far down the list... What I look for in an animal is clarity, fur density, a nice bull/roach neck, good veiling, good confirmation, and THEN size. If an animal has all of the above traits but is only lacking in size, then that's just one fault. On the other hand, if the animal is large but is lacking clarity, veiling and confirmation, what's the point in breeding it? It has too many faults. From my experience, large is not always better; larger animals tend to have many faults. But that's just my opinion...

[Megan.]

I dissagree to a point. Granted, she didn't take show..However this is just my experience. I had an animal. She was the smallest in her class, however she was given a first and animals with more size then her were knocked. Why? She had the color and clarity going for her.. The judge obviosuly thought that was more important over the size of the animals...

Now, if two animals are totally equal the only difference being size- I can see the animal with size being taken over the smaller animal.

I wish Ariel wasn't pregnant right now. She's the prefect example of a chin who weighs 600ish grams, but looks a lot bigger. She looks just like her mom who is easily almost 200 grams larger then she is.