Are there different judging standards?

[The Animal Farm]

I've been reading the chin size what is breedable thread and don't want to hijack it. Thinking about judging has made me wonder 2 things:
1. Are most of the judges breeders or ranchers [I'm using the traditional pelting distinction]?
2. Is there a difference in the standards they use to judge? On the surface it would appear that a good coat for pelt would mean a good coat in terms of breeding but maybe there are distinctions the rest of us don't know about.

Oh, and the point of this thread is not to re-start the almighty pelt/pet debate. I want to learn about differing judging styles if there are any.

[Vyxxin]

In my experience, judges are usually (if not always) ranchers...people that have pelted or are pelting and have many animals in breeding.

That said, I belive that the standards for judging are the same under a specific organizations (for instance, all MCBA judges should have the same standards) There are some differences between standards of each organization though...especially organizations outside of the states.

[Riven]

To become a sanctioned judge you have to go through training, I believe it's a long process that many breeders don't have the time, or money, or maybe just desire to do. You have to help with so many shows, and assist judge, etc.
Not to start a debate but I do believe that ECBC has stricter rules since they are more pelt orientated the MCBA, who seems to be more pet orientated. I do know that an ECBC judge is automatically a MCBA judge (MCBA accepts anyone who's sanctioned with ECBC to just their shows) where as ECBC will not accept MCBA judges that are not ECBC sanctioned.

The majority if not all are older ranchers. It's not just sign a waiver and get a judging permit. :)

[Vyxxin]

Yeah, that's what I was saying...inside of an organization the judging should be pretty uniform. For instance, if you have say 2 MCBA judges looking at the same animal (at the exact same time)...that animal should not be a 1st by one judge and a 3rd by the other. It should be a 1st to both or very close (like a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 1B)

However, I've heard of various things that organizations outside of the US take into consideration that we in the US do not...if I could remember a darn one of them I'd mention :) I know it was talked about on another forum...a LONG time ago...but can't remember which

[kare_bear]

The standards are the same in both organizations. Basically a good chin, alive, would make a good pelt. They are judged on the same thing. Our MCBA show had the same judge as our claiming show and Empress has used them as well.

Of course each judge had their own preferences. Some are very keen on the belly, some on the veiling, some on clarity, etc. The basic things will remain the same(or should) but each judge will have a bit of a preference when they judge.

Most judges have been ranchers for years, back before there really was a pet market and pelting WAS the option. But then who better to be a judge?

[Vyxxin]

Well, I'm not entirely sure about ECBC and MCBA being the same standards...but I know out of the Country orgs. have different standards. I forget which they are...but I seen a grading sheet for one of them and they took into consideration a lot of different things that, here, in the US, we don't see judged.

I belive some places even have specif colored/metal type cages that NEED to be used

[Shuboyje]

This has nothing to do with the training they recieve, and everything to do with the fact that up until about 5 years ago the MCBA never did judge training, and actually I don't think there are any MCBA trained judges who are sanctioned yet anyway.

To become a sanctioned judge you have to go through training, I believe it's a long process that many breeders don't have the time, or money, or maybe just desire to do. You have to help with so many shows, and assist judge, etc.
Not to start a debate but I do believe that ECBC has stricter rules since they are more pelt orientated the MCBA, who seems to be more pet orientated. I do know that an ECBC judge is automatically a MCBA judge (MCBA accepts anyone who's sanctioned with ECBC to just their shows) where as ECBC will not accept MCBA judges that are not ECBC sanctioned.

The majority if not all are older ranchers. It's not just sign a waiver and get a judging permit. :)

[Riven]

Are you saying that in five years they couldn't get a judge?
IMO it would be best to be sanctioned with ECBC since it's good for both org. If your California drivers license allows you to drive in Utah there's no point of getting one issued in Utah...

[Becky]

Becoming a judge is a long process. MCBA has 2 people that have completed their training, except for the final "test". I'm sure that will happen soon. We have another that is just beginning the process.

There are differences between the two organizations, but things are becoming more and more standardized. Our shows are set up differently, but the judges are the same people, looking for the same things.

If you had 50 animals in an MCBA show and the same 50 in an ECBC show on the same day, the same animals would come out on top. (I am considering these 2 imaginary shows taking place at the exact same time, so all would be in the exact same show shape.)

Judges do have areas that they tend to stress. That means that everything else being equal, one judge may choose because of a little more size, or a clearer color. etc.

Becky

[Shuboyje]

Problem is for all practicle purposes ECBC is non-exhistant in the east...which means alot of travel to become a sanctioned judge. MCBA on the other hand has shows all over the country.

Are you saying that in five years they couldn't get a judge?
IMO it would be best to be sanctioned with ECBC since it's good for both org. If your California drivers license allows you to drive in Utah there's no point of getting one issued in Utah...