Emilys_Exotics
10-11-2006, 09:56 AM
O.k, I am not trying to start a pet/pelt debate here. That is not my purpose. I am just trying to figure out if anyone could breed on a large scale and not be a pelter. (not that they would pelt the chins themselves, but sell them for pelts or what not).
I've been reading a lot about showing of chins, breeding, working with mutes vs. standards and a whole bunch of stuff. From what I've gathered, the way shows are judged is pretty much on the pelt of a chin. (as in, would it make a good fur coat). Now, that isn't the exact question asked, but the types of things looked for in a chin are all the same sorts of things that would cause a particular chin to look nice in a coat. I also have gathered that anyone SERIOUS about breeding (and breeding lots of chins, I guess, rather than a hobby breeder who maybe has a couple of nice animals that pair up well together, but doesn't plan on breeding more than that pair or what not) needs to have a good standard line at their ranch before trying any mutes. Although this is currently being debated, mutes it seems do not have the quality of conformation in general that standards do,and it seems their only attribute is a unique color, so to keep all the good things, one must breed to high quality standards, and just introduce the mutes to try for color.
To me, this means a rancher that ONLY breeds standards, has well, lots of standards, presumably good quality. A rancher that is working on a particular mutation (or several in different lines) would have some of the mutation, plus lots of quality standards, and some standards that carry the mutation. (by breeding back to standards, they would get a lot of standard kits that could possibly (or might definitely) carry a mutation gene.
So, to get a good quality chin (mute or standard) it seems one has to have A LOT of chins. (Or of course just buy one really great animal, but if you are trying to breed a high quality chin yourself, having lots of chins would help).
It seems there are a few options of what will happen to a chin born to a ranch. It could be kept and put into breeding, if it would improve the line. It could be kept as a pet (though are there many ranchers who actually have pet chins? I"d feel a little guilty about having a few chins in a spoiled cage in the house, and tons outside in runs. Plus, the ones in the runs would be doing the hard work of breeding...), it could be sold--either to be a breeder (perhaps it meshes better with someone elses herd, has qualities that compliment their chins, or perhaps it is not as high a quality as one of the ranchers chins, but still better than the buyers chins...but it seems then the buyer should start over with better chins, except I have seen how much the truly quality chins go for on chinchillas.com, and it's a little scary, I realize this is the extreme, but if everyone wanted to better all the chins born, wouldn't they go to that extreme, rather than breeding a potentially inferior animal?), or to be a pet, or to be a coat (or hat or whatever one would make from the fur). Now, if you have a ton of chins, it is likely that many of the kits would not be kept for breeding. (especially male kits as the best male can service many females). I'm sure also that not all breeders want to better their herd with rejects from other ranchers--and even if all the chins that had good enough quality to potentially breed went into breeding, there would likely still be A LOT that didn't meet the breeding standard. So,those would have to become pets or coats. (though it's possible some people would get them to breed, just cause they didn't know better or want to know better...). I'm sure that there aren't enough homes out there for them to all be pets (In fact, looking at all the rescues, I KNOW There aren't enough homes out there for them, good, bad OR ugly. And, some of the chins rescued from horrible situations would have suffered much less if humanely killed to become a coat.) I would also think that pelting chins would be a bit more lucrative than selling them as pets. In order to offload that many chins as pets, one would have to deal with a LOT of petstores and I'm sure large petstores would not want to pay very much so they could make a nice profit off the sale. Though I must admit, I've no idea what an individual chin pelt goes for--and I'm sure the price depends on the quality of the pelt,too.
So, I am guessing that all large ranchers are also pelters, is this true? If not, what is done with all the chins that don't make it into breeding? If someone starts as a hobby breeder, they will likely not have enough chins to be pelters (or would at least have the luxury of deciding not to pelt). But, if they are serious and their herd grows, at some point, it could be a large herd, more like that of a rancher. In which case, if they didn't want to pelt, and cared about what sorts of homes the chins went into, they would have a LOT Of chins that were'nt in breeding.
Now, I think the mutes are cute, and I"ve seen some GORGEOUS ones out there too, some of which are not openely available yet (the goldbar). It seems that to actually develop a line of a new mute, and get it solidified (like ebony has been, and violet and saphire MAY become, but aren't there yet, and well, goldbar is still even farther away from there than violet or saphire) you must have a LOT of chins, good quality standards. So, developing new lines also produces tons of chins,without the new quality. What exactly is the point of developing the new mutes? I am hoping to add a couple of mutes to my pet population, because I like their looks, but I also of course love my standards. But, is the main purpose of developing a mute to develop a new color for the fur fashion industry? Is it just cause it looks cool? I know there isn't a pet only reason for developing mutes, though some people do want cool looking chins rather than standard. (not that standard isn't cool,but they want something different). IS the fur industry what drives the development of mutes?
I know this post is quite long. I was just wondering about all this stuff, and I figured it would be a hot/touchy topic, so I put it here in debates.
Emily
I've been reading a lot about showing of chins, breeding, working with mutes vs. standards and a whole bunch of stuff. From what I've gathered, the way shows are judged is pretty much on the pelt of a chin. (as in, would it make a good fur coat). Now, that isn't the exact question asked, but the types of things looked for in a chin are all the same sorts of things that would cause a particular chin to look nice in a coat. I also have gathered that anyone SERIOUS about breeding (and breeding lots of chins, I guess, rather than a hobby breeder who maybe has a couple of nice animals that pair up well together, but doesn't plan on breeding more than that pair or what not) needs to have a good standard line at their ranch before trying any mutes. Although this is currently being debated, mutes it seems do not have the quality of conformation in general that standards do,and it seems their only attribute is a unique color, so to keep all the good things, one must breed to high quality standards, and just introduce the mutes to try for color.
To me, this means a rancher that ONLY breeds standards, has well, lots of standards, presumably good quality. A rancher that is working on a particular mutation (or several in different lines) would have some of the mutation, plus lots of quality standards, and some standards that carry the mutation. (by breeding back to standards, they would get a lot of standard kits that could possibly (or might definitely) carry a mutation gene.
So, to get a good quality chin (mute or standard) it seems one has to have A LOT of chins. (Or of course just buy one really great animal, but if you are trying to breed a high quality chin yourself, having lots of chins would help).
It seems there are a few options of what will happen to a chin born to a ranch. It could be kept and put into breeding, if it would improve the line. It could be kept as a pet (though are there many ranchers who actually have pet chins? I"d feel a little guilty about having a few chins in a spoiled cage in the house, and tons outside in runs. Plus, the ones in the runs would be doing the hard work of breeding...), it could be sold--either to be a breeder (perhaps it meshes better with someone elses herd, has qualities that compliment their chins, or perhaps it is not as high a quality as one of the ranchers chins, but still better than the buyers chins...but it seems then the buyer should start over with better chins, except I have seen how much the truly quality chins go for on chinchillas.com, and it's a little scary, I realize this is the extreme, but if everyone wanted to better all the chins born, wouldn't they go to that extreme, rather than breeding a potentially inferior animal?), or to be a pet, or to be a coat (or hat or whatever one would make from the fur). Now, if you have a ton of chins, it is likely that many of the kits would not be kept for breeding. (especially male kits as the best male can service many females). I'm sure also that not all breeders want to better their herd with rejects from other ranchers--and even if all the chins that had good enough quality to potentially breed went into breeding, there would likely still be A LOT that didn't meet the breeding standard. So,those would have to become pets or coats. (though it's possible some people would get them to breed, just cause they didn't know better or want to know better...). I'm sure that there aren't enough homes out there for them to all be pets (In fact, looking at all the rescues, I KNOW There aren't enough homes out there for them, good, bad OR ugly. And, some of the chins rescued from horrible situations would have suffered much less if humanely killed to become a coat.) I would also think that pelting chins would be a bit more lucrative than selling them as pets. In order to offload that many chins as pets, one would have to deal with a LOT of petstores and I'm sure large petstores would not want to pay very much so they could make a nice profit off the sale. Though I must admit, I've no idea what an individual chin pelt goes for--and I'm sure the price depends on the quality of the pelt,too.
So, I am guessing that all large ranchers are also pelters, is this true? If not, what is done with all the chins that don't make it into breeding? If someone starts as a hobby breeder, they will likely not have enough chins to be pelters (or would at least have the luxury of deciding not to pelt). But, if they are serious and their herd grows, at some point, it could be a large herd, more like that of a rancher. In which case, if they didn't want to pelt, and cared about what sorts of homes the chins went into, they would have a LOT Of chins that were'nt in breeding.
Now, I think the mutes are cute, and I"ve seen some GORGEOUS ones out there too, some of which are not openely available yet (the goldbar). It seems that to actually develop a line of a new mute, and get it solidified (like ebony has been, and violet and saphire MAY become, but aren't there yet, and well, goldbar is still even farther away from there than violet or saphire) you must have a LOT of chins, good quality standards. So, developing new lines also produces tons of chins,without the new quality. What exactly is the point of developing the new mutes? I am hoping to add a couple of mutes to my pet population, because I like their looks, but I also of course love my standards. But, is the main purpose of developing a mute to develop a new color for the fur fashion industry? Is it just cause it looks cool? I know there isn't a pet only reason for developing mutes, though some people do want cool looking chins rather than standard. (not that standard isn't cool,but they want something different). IS the fur industry what drives the development of mutes?
I know this post is quite long. I was just wondering about all this stuff, and I figured it would be a hot/touchy topic, so I put it here in debates.
Emily