Kingworms?

[charlie]

The man of the house brought some of these home for the boys since they were out of mealies. Are these the same thing? They were sold separately from Superworms which are the bitters as far as I'm aware. I ran a quick search and kingworm doesn't seem to bring anything up in this forum. On line there seems to be a lot of contradictory information. Is this safe to feed as a treat?

[HedgieMate]

As far as I know, superworms and kingworms are the same. They both belong to a species called "Zophobas morio". If you search in Wikipedia using "kingworm" as a keyword, you'll be redirected to the Zophobas morio page. There it states, "...whose larvae are known by the common name superworm or zophobas." Also, the Worm Man's Worm Farm website (http://www.wormman.com/pd_superworms_shipped.cfm) states, "Superworms are also known as Kingworms or Zoophobas *sic*." [see the second line in the caption just below the photo.]

ETA: Here's a post on a reptile-related online forum about them as well: http://www.repticzone.com/forums/WaterDragons/messages/1684756.html#1685524

[charlie]

Thanks! I got the same response on about half the sites. The other half state that kingworms are another name for the giant mealworm (ones that have been fed growth hormone to enlarge them and prevent them from entering the next growth stage). In either case this is sounding like something I don't want to feed. To note I did put them in the fridge and they seem to be doing just fine. This may indicate that they are mealies right? They certainly don't look like superworms at all....then again I am no insect expert at all. Oh well, I'll try to give them back to the pet store so they don't go to waste.

[AlbertaGirl]

This is an ongoing discussion in the reptile community. Part of the problem is that different sellers use different names for the same worms. It sounds to me like what you have are the giant mealworms, not superworms. Superworms are shiny and have a black head. Giant mealworms just look like, well, giant mealworms. If you leave them out of the fridge, they will change. I bought some for my gecko when we were having a mealworm shortage, but she wouldn't touch them. Neither would my bearded dragon or either of the hedgehogs! I don't know how they make them get so big, but I can't imagine that it's anything good.

[HedgieMate]

To note I did put them in the fridge and they seem to be doing just fine. This may indicate that they are mealies right?

It's true that superworms can't live very long at a low temperature, unlike mealworms or Tenebrio molitor that can be dormant in a fridge for months. However, I don't think superworms die instantly in a fridge either. It depends on how low the temp is set for your fridge and how long they are kept in it.

That being said, I agree with Sandi that what you got are more likely giantworms, rather than superworms, and if so, giantworms certainly have no trouble surviving in a fridge since they're Tenebrio molitor (mealworms) on growth hormone.

Either way, I would not feeding them to your quilled friends. :)

[PixieHedgies]

Kingworms are hormone induced mealworms. Superworms are a totally different species. Mealworms (and/or Kingworms) need to be stored in the refridgerator to prevent them from morphing. Superworms can be kept at room temp, and will only morph when they are in isolation. When grouped in multiples, they constantly stimulate each other and will not morph.

Many websites state that breeding a colony requires a process called "stressing", where they are isolated and placed in the dark. However, my son did a controlled study for his 3rd grade science fair project. He setup control groups in 4 different categories, to find out if they must be isolated AND placed in complete darkness in order to morph. His groups were as follows:

Group 1 = single, dark
Group 2 = single, light
Group 3 = multiple, dark
Group 4 = multiple, light

After nearly 2 months of data, he proved that Superworms do NOT need to be placed in the dark to morph......but they DO need to isolated. He then allowed the adult morio beetles to breed and thus started his own colony of superworms. With this project, he watched the Superworms morph into their larve stage, then hatch into a beetle, then beetle breeding which produced baby superworms. The lifecycle was repeated several times until we acquired a large enough colony to feed our gecko and hedgies.

:thumbsupwink: My son won 1st place out of four 3rd grade classes. And then went on to win the MAD SCIENTIST award for having the best science project in the entire school. He was told by many teachers that his level of controlled study for this research project, was at the minimum, middle school level and could be considered high school level.

So what does all this have to do with HEDGIES? Due to rumor/fact that Superworms could bite hedgies, we would feed them BUTT first. Thus by the time the head of the worm reached the hedgie, the worm would be dead and could not bite. From our experience and constant handling of Superworms, we never once had any of them bite hard enough to hurt. They actually don't bite at all. They have little pinchers which are used to help them hold on with. Thus it is my opinion (which others may disagree with) that Superworms CAN be fed to hedgies when offered in a manner in which they cannot bite/pinch.

I don't want to "open a can of worms" with this posting. My intent is to offer instructions on how to properly feed Superworms without the risk of hurting your hedgehog. I simply feel the option should be offered because it is often asked.....especially from people who also own reptiles and already have them on hand. Superworms higher in fat content than mealworms, so please offer smaller quantities.

:winkgrin: If you disagree, I totally respect your opinion, and ask that you respect mine in return.

[HedgieMate]

Many new comers are already a bit confused about what's safe and what's not for their hedgies, so I feel compelled to enter my opinion for the record concerning PixieHedgies' post above.

As Sandi/AlbertaGirl pointed out, the root of the confusion comes from some suppliers and pet stores using different names interchangeably (e.g. calling hormone-induced large worms giantworms, kingworms, or even superworms). We can argue about whether or not kingworms are the same as superworms back and forth and still can't reach a definitive answer because of this.

What we know for sure is all hedgie experts agree that "mealworms" or Tenebrio molitor are hedgie-safe because they don't bite, but they must be free of any growth hormone to make them artificially big. On the other hand, Zophobas morio known as superworms (or sometimes called kingworms or giantworms, whether by design or mistake) are a different species and believed to bite causing harm to a hh.

I for one believe that Zophabas mario (superworms) to be a danger to hhs. There are a few reasons for this:

(1) While a few hedgie parents insist that superworms are safe, I've read one case where a respected longtime hedgie breeder lost a hh whose esophagus was bitten by superworms and bled to death. I admit this is hearsay, but it was enough for me to avoid feeding superworms since there are other completely safe alternatives including regular mealworms;

(2) Our hedgie is smallish, weighing about 300g. He liked eating small crickets (pinheads and 1/4"), so one day we tried bigger crickets. Well, a 3/4" cricket retaliated out of desperation and bit our hedgie. :eek: It did not cause any serious damage, but it scared him enough not to go near by a big cricket ever again and it was enough for us not to even consider superworms to him; and

(3) Most hedgie owners do not feed hhs from their hand because it sometimes encourage hhs to form a bad habit of biting. My understanding is that many hedgie parents either place worms in a shallow dish or in front of them. So you can't always ensure that your hh can consume superworms tail first.

Therefore, IMO, as it has been advised on this board and other hh forums and mail list, cutting off or smashing the head of a superworm before feeding will be a good idea if you insist on feeding superworms to your hhs. :)

[Nancy]

(1) While a few hedgie parents insist that superworms are safe, I've read one case where a respected longtime hedgie breeder lost a hh whose esophagus was bitten by superworms and bled to death. I admit this is hearsay, but it was enough for me to avoid feeding superworms since there are other completely safe alternatives including regular mealworms;


I just want to add that, the respected longtime hedgie breeder who lost her hedgehog to a superworm, has the necropsy report to prove it.

[Cimredopyh]

I just want to add that, the respected longtime hedgie breeder who lost her hedgehog to a superworm, has the necropsy report to prove it.

Wow, well.. that's about as conclusive as it can get. I have always wondered if it could really happen.
Good to know.

[PixieHedgies]

By all means if you don't hand feed, then cutting off the head would be the proper way to feed Superworms. If you hand feed, then they should be fed butt first. Either way, the result is the same. If the Superworm is DEAD when your hedgie consumes it, then the worm cannot bite nor harm your hedgehog.

I'm aware of the hedgehog that belong to the highly respected breeder's necropsy. In fact, I've had many personal converstations with her.

By no means am I telling anyone to feed Superworms, if you are uncomfortable with them, then don't buy them. However many hedgie owners also own reptiles (which do eat Superworms), and thus they already have them on hand and are curious about feeding them to their hedgie.

I'm offering my opinion to those who do want to feed Superworms, and trying to explain the only logical sense that if the Superworm is dead before the hedgie consumes the head, then there is absolutely no way to harm your hedgehog.

And yes, many pet store owners and/or employees DO often mislabel the hormone induced Kingworms, as Superworms. But one can easily tell the difference, based on where the worms are being stored at the pet store. If they bring them out from refridgerated storage, then you should assume you are purchasing Mealworms or Kingworms (overgrown mealworms). If they are sitting in the reptile isle at room temp, then they are indeed Superworms. Kingworms are also very brown and dull looking (just like mealworms). Superworms have a distinctly colored black head and are very shiny looking.

:winkgrin: Calling Superworms...Kingworms, would be like calling a cat...a dog.