Ideas to improve hedgie life expectancy?

[dfonseca]

Hi all,

There was a post on a thread about breeding not long ago which stated that pet hedgies used to live longer (up to 8 yrs!!!) and got ill much less or much later in life - and that was not long ago. Given that hedgies mentioned here in the forums hardly ever go over 3 or 4 yrs without some form of cancer, looks like there's room for improvement.

I was wondering if anyone here ever tried (or knows about others who did) doing some basic home research or (safe) experimentation, to try to find out what helps and what doesn't. Note that it doesn't really have to take a lot of effort or money, just define your criteria (protein / fat / fiber % in the food, diet supplements / treats, whether they had babies, lifespans and diseases of mom and dad, simple stuff like that), and take notes about health-related events during the life of the hog. Eventually you could try to find the effect of each factor, and hopefully identify ways to make them live better and longer.

For instance: I know quality cat kibble has the best results so far, but has anyone ever tried a insect-only diet? With as many different bugs as possible - maybe from a garden. How did that work? How about adding mineral or vitamin supplements to the kibble?

I guess the best answers will come from breeders, but feel free to chime in if you've had a few hogs and paid attention to these things.

Cheers,
Daniel

[HedgeMom]

Hedgehogs lived longer in the beginning because of hybrid hardiness. After that, the inbreeding eliminated it. When you consider that the apricot color came from six related breeding animals of less than stellar quality, there is no wonder that the entire domesticated species has been damaged.

Unless you have a large quantity of hedgehogs you can't do accurate feeding studies. You have to have multi generations as well as control animals. In one or two or ten animals you could just have a statistical anomaly.

You have one hedgehog. You feed it XYZ. It lives 7 years. Would it have lived 7 years on another diet? Maybe. Maybe not. But there is nothing to indicate that it was dietary and not genetic. You need a control that you don't feed XYZ that is genetically similar if not identical to the other animal. Then you need to be able to repeat that finding over and over again with other animals.

We do the best we can with the limited information we have. We look at trends and we extrapolate. What you read here is a compilation of that information. Very little has changed in the last few years with the exception of accepting dog kibble as part of a balanced diet (if it's broken into hedgie manageble bits).

[beanjelly]

so the decline in hedgehog lifespans is because of poor breeding? are there any other factors that could have played a part? (I don't know, that's why I'm asking!)

will we be able to now extend hh lifespan with improved breeding techniques? or are the poor breeders still too prevalent?

[HedgeMom]

I think "poor" doesn't accurately reflect the issues. There is no way to expand the gene pool. The US borders are closed to any further imports so what we have is what we have. You can't "clean" a gene pool. You can breed away from a trait and minimize it but you'll never know if you truly got the gene out of the line or it's just lurking in the background.

Breeders merely respond to the market. Buyers don't want ordinary chocolate hedgehogs. They want the Salt and Peppers, the Uber Pintos, the Cinnacots, the unusual and they are willing to pay for it. With color inheritance so poorly understood, there is a lot of breeding going on to produce what people want to buy.

I don't hold out much hope for expanding life expectancy unless new stock can be brought in for a new gene infusion.

[dfonseca]

HM & beanjelly, thanks a lot for your replies! :thumbsupwink:

The US borders are closed to any further imports so what we have is what we have.

That is really sad news. :| I believe US & Canada are the places where most pet hedgies are, so that's where the biggest potential was. Even though you're right in saying we can't fully eliminate traits right away, I think we could try to dilute the factors which cause the bad stuff when they appear all at once. Maybe some exchanges with European breeders would add some diversity which could bring good results.


so the decline in hedgehog lifespans is because of poor breeding?

Like HM, I don't think it's that simple either. No matter how good a job the breeder does, there's just so many hedgies they can breed & keep track of at the same time. And while you could try exchanges with other breeders, odds are their hedgies are related to yours by very few generations. So progress, if any, is very slow.

However...

I don't hold out much hope for expanding life expectancy unless new stock can be brought in for a new gene infusion.

I wouldn't give up so quickly. There must be more to it than genetics, and although you're right that we wouldn't get "hard" results without proper methods and controls, we could at least try to collaborate and get more evidence to back our "recommendations". Just by keeping a few basic details (like parents, food and medical history) and cross-referencing with enough info from other hogs, you could draw some simple conclusions. Maybe someday a company will come up with hedgehog food that's actually good, how will we know? Maybe there's a specific nutrient in cat kibble that causes cancer in hegies, but not in cats. Maybe we should cut back on wheeling, or maybe encourage it more. Who knows?

I know it might not lead anywhere, but it won't do no harm either. The effort is very low, and it looks like nothing of the sort is being done.

My Obie is a little young for statistics, but I guess it would go like this:
Obelix
Born: May 20th, 2008 to mother FGH Vitória and father ?
Primary Food: Royal Canin Light 38
Secondary Food: Purina Pro Plan Adult Cats
Treat: mealworms
Medical History: No health issues so far. :thumbup:

[Hathery]

I think "poor" doesn't accurately reflect the issues. There is no way to expand the gene pool. The US borders are closed to any further imports so what we have is what we have. You can't "clean" a gene pool. You can breed away from a trait and minimize it but you'll never know if you truly got the gene out of the line or it's just lurking in the background.

Breeders merely respond to the market. Buyers don't want ordinary chocolate hedgehogs. They want the Salt and Peppers, the Uber Pintos, the Cinnacots, the unusual and they are willing to pay for it. With color inheritance so poorly understood, there is a lot of breeding going on to produce what people want to buy.

I don't hold out much hope for expanding life expectancy unless new stock can be brought in for a new gene infusion.

I wanted an ordinary chocolate. :D

[HedgeMom]

I wanted an ordinary chocolate. :D

You know, the browns/blacks/grays all become chocolate by a year old. :)

I love them all. Most of my rescues have been chocolates but I've gotten a wide variety of colors, except albino (well, no real S&P, Platinum or Double Whites either). The one albino that was coming into rescue turned out to be an apricot pinto. I've had apricots, cinnacots, cinnamons, pintos, chocolates, grays, snowflakes and everything in between.
Maybe some exchanges with European breeders would add some diversity which could bring good results.


It's my understanding that Europe and Asia animals are imported from the US and Canada, due to the risk of hoof and mouth in wild hedgehogs.

[Hathery]

You know, the browns/blacks/grays all become chocolate by a year old. :)

I love them all. Most of my rescues have been chocolates but I've gotten a wide variety of colors, except albino (well, no real S&P, Platinum or Double Whites either). The one albino that was coming into rescue turned out to be an apricot pinto. I've had apricots, cinnacots, cinnamons, pintos, chocolates, grays, snowflakes and everything in between.


It's my understanding that Europe and Asia animals are imported from the US and Canada, due to the risk of hoof and mouth in wild hedgehogs.

Really? I did not know that!!

I love them all too. At first I found the albinos a bit odd, but I've really grown to love them!

[pricklesnquills]

no, not all of them....just most tend to fade quite a bit. It is rare that a 'black' stays 'black' it's whole life. I had a girl at was black at 8 weeks and now at a year, she's an normal grey..


I think that all these back yard breeders that have popped up in the past few years have greatly contributed to the problems that we have today. They make all the inbreeding worse when they breed hedgies with unknown pedigrees. They are likely unhealthy and somehow closely related, which just makes the babies in worse condition.

While we can't get more hedgies here to add to the gene pool, we can help prevent everything from getting much worse if everyone would be responsible pet owners and stop breeding irresponsibly. It's really sad. Too bad our world is filled with lots of ignorant, selfish hedgie owners. But there are still a few good owners and breeders around ;)

[smhufflepuff]

Curious... I've read in a few places about the ban on importing African hedgies to the US. What about Canada - do the same restrictions exist? And, if so, how'd that happen?
Otherwise, the solution appears simple: bring them into Canada, strengthen the Canadian lines, then bring those lines into the US.