Chinnie Ethics 101

[leaughxp]

I am taking an environmental ethics class this semester and our professors were talking about why are humans different form animals in terms of moral standing? Well they kind of just pushed the idea on the class that the reason is that humans can reason and "we wonder and know we are wondering." They said that animals can reason to a certain extinit such as a racoon can figure out the best way to get the food out of the trash but they don't have self awareness and the ability to "put youself in someone elses shoes" like humans do. Well I was kind of thinking that I don't believe that humans are the only animals that can reason and I don't have any idea how you can measure or test something like that. Just want to know what everyone else thinks. Agree? Disagree? Why?

[leaughxp]

Do you think chinchillas can reason? Are they capable of making decisions such as goals in life or do they just follow their instincts?

[Super Chin]

I think they have goals in life-my chinchilla wants to be a foot doctor! :laugh: In all seriousness I think that they can reason. (Should I do this or not, eat this or not, go there or not) but as far as goals in life...

[dpawlowski]

This kinda goes along the lines of "do animals [chins] have souls??? Sometimes I think we humans like to think that we are the greatest thing created. Oh God, I think I am getting to philosophical for myself!!!

[Mogwai]

It's been proven that at least some species can reason and learn and are self aware. These include Corvid birds, primates, cetaceans, and titmice. Some species even show emotions such as grief (primates). There are numerous examples in the primate family, not just us. Also cetaceans, like dolphins and whales. Some animals show evidence of culutre (cetaceans, primates) and even ritual (elephants).
I think your prof is making an incorrect generalization considering there is evidence to the contrary and also considering we are only just scratching the surface of how to measure and test such things. We don't even fully understand these aspects about ourselves yet, let alone other species.

[Loves2LoveChins]

Chinchillas can reason to a point, such as remembering if a person was kind to them or not and allowing that person to come up to them without being afraid. However chinchillas cannot reason well when it comes to breeding. They cannot decide if it is good for them to have babies if they might of had parents with genetic disorders. They breed because it's instinctual. Also if males knew that breed back was bad for females, then they would probably decide not to do it. I like to call this theory, reason within limits. :)

[leaughxp]

Oh God, I think I am getting to philosophical for myself!!!

HAHAHA! :laugh: My philosophical insights come few are far between! I HATE philosophy and I have to take 3 :( of these classes to graduate (and yes that's gen ed reqs) and boy am I glad this is my last. All I have to say is it's interesting; creepy (profs) but interesting. Anyhow I have this class tomorrow so I'm going to ask how they test or measure self awareness.

The professors did mention about new information showing some primates had self awareness but not really any others. I love elephants and I saw a show where a herd had come across the bones of a relative and they were feeling and turning them all over as in greiving and knowing who it had been. Also elephants pass information down for many generations on locations of watering holes and how to get to them, ones that they haven't visited in years. So this is what got me thinking that we shouldn't exclude other animals but whether or not that's considered self awareness I'm not sure.

I'd like to think chins are self aware, Chub wants to be an astronaut! :m: :a:

[Kmammone]

They said that animals can reason to a certain extinit such as a racoon can figure out the best way to get the food out of the trash but they don't have self awareness and the ability to "put youself in someone elses shoes" like humans do
I'm not certain how many humans REALLY have the ability to put themselves in someone elses shoes.
But, I CAN tell you that coons ARE indeed very self aware and can learn a great deal if taught. In the wild they have no reason to learn certain things.
My coon has definitely learned that when playing with me (the thin skinned, furless one), and with my dogs (who are MUCH smaller than he is), he has to be much more gentle. He doesnt' like to hurt his friends!
This is something he has reasoned on his own and not through being punished or anything like that (punishing a coon actually can lead to a dangerous coon later on).
He instinctively knew that if he wanted to play with the baby kinkajous, he had to be gentle with him.
This is something he's learned by being around animals that he would not have had contact with in the wild. And in a setting where he doesn't have to worry if THIS is the only meal he'll find for days.

I just love it when scientists attribute things to animals that they've only observed either in the wild or in a controlled setting. Most scientists will tell you coons are solitary in the wild as well, though dens of over 20 have been found wintering together.
Walk into my house, you will see how many of these theories are blown out of the water!

I think chinchillas can definitely reason, though not to the extent that maybe coons or other animals do. How many people have had to put locks on their cages because their chins kept figuring out how to get out? That's setting a goal and figuring out how to accomplish it, right?

[Kristinespi]

I'm not certain how many humans REALLY have the ability to put themselves in someone elses shoes.


I agree with that, how can someone (a human) say that any animal can't reason, just because a human can talk and say "yes, I reason" and an animal can't "talk" to say that. It's kind of being prejudice against intelligent animals :laugh

[Kristinespi]

Definitley a good debate topic!!! hehe