Response to Anyone wanting to Breed

[PrincessHedge]

Hello to all. just wanted to respond and ask a few of my own questions. I am not trying to start a fight or anything. I know what all you Breeders are saying. But where are the postives of BREEDING? What about the good times you have with your Hedgies? And are you all breeding for the betterment? I hear you all say you started more than a few years ago? Who helped you learn. was it through trial and error? And Didn't breeding start some where? I was just hoping that Breeders might be a little more supportative of others with out being so judgemental and scaring people off. I my self have hedgies and know what it takes to breed I have read and I am sure I do not know even half of what I should but I am learning. I do not want to be afraid to come on here in fear of all the attacts. People are going to Breed with or with out your help. I just PRAY that it is with your Help.I know one thing all of us here Love our Hedgies and with everyone supporting everybody it would be in the hedgies best interest. I guess I just want to hear the positives of breeding not just the negatives. When you tell a story the whole stoty should be told. And with all the risks in life with our familys and other animals we all have our rough roads. I guess it is up to us to do what is best for our animals and those who TRUELY Love there HEDGEIES will do whats best. SO I hope that there is some positive feed back and not attacks....... :confused:
Many Thanks to those who just listen and if you do not agree that is fine we all do not have to agree with each other we can Agree to Disagree , but still be suportive. ;) :applause:


Again many thanks and Blessings to all with familes and Hedgies :D :D

[Nancy]

I started that thread to let people know the real truth behind hedgehog breeding. Sure there are lots of great times. Holding young babies is an awesome feeling and watching them grow.... well there is nothing better. When the excited new owner takes their new baby home well it is an awesome feeling.... BUT along with the good, goes the bad and with hedgehog breeding often the bad outweighs the good.

There seem to be so many people who get a hedgehog and immediately want to breed. Why? They are still asking basic hedgehog care questions, yet they want to breed. Why? What is the motive behind this? If you have to ask how to care for your hedgehog you are a long way from being knowledgable enough to breed.

Many people think breeding hedgehogs is easy just because breeding other small animals is fairly easy. I think they see dollar signs and forget that breeding hedgehogs is totally different than breeding rats, mice, gerbils, degu etc. Those animals breed with successful births quite easily. Hedgehogs do not. Of course with any animal there is always the possibility of something going wrong but with hedgehogs the possibility of something going wrong happens far more often than most people realize.

No, not everyone who answered that thread is a long time breeder. I am just starting out and I have to ask lots of questions but I learned basic hedgehog care before I gave breeding the slightest thought. I also had numerous hedgehogs and had been through illnesses and hibernation attempts and death. I was fully prepared both emotionally and financially and was fully aware of all that could go wrong. Lucky I was, because it did. The first litter was cannibalized and mom was up and acting as if nothing had happened. Anyone who thinks that is easy to go through has no feelings. Second litter died inside mom and she delivered 7 dead babies and just about died herself. $500.+ dollars later and that is with a discount, mom is spayed and on the slow road to recovery. I am sure every breeder can tell of cannibalized litters, sick moms, and worse yet, dead moms. Being a new breeder I have to ask lots of questions. Right Becca, Lauren, Kelly, Jeanne and countless other who have helped guide me. There is nothing wrong with that BUT I am not asking basic hedgehog care questions. I made sure I knew all of that first. Many people do not and those are the people who get "bashed", if you want to call it that.

I am sure no one on here is out to bash new people who want to breed. What we want is for those people to be aware and prepared for what might and will in all probability happen at some point in time. No one is being judgemental but what we do question is the motives of someone who is a new hedgie owner with new hedgie owner questions yet they want to breed.

I agree that no one should be afraid to come on here with any question regarding breeding but if they are I am quite sure it is because in their own minds and hearts they know they are not ready either with the knowledge, emotionally, financially or do not have the time to commit to breeding. Anyone who is capable of providing all those necessary elements need not fear anything any longtime breeder has to say as they have covered all the basics and just need a bit of guidance.

As for making money. Sure you can make money but all it takes is one huge vet bill to wipe out everything you have earned. Look at Lauren and Rosie. Sure she had some successful litters but I'm willing to bet she lost it all on Rosies emergency surgery. Am I right Lauren? This is something every new breeder has to be prepared for. Oh sure there are some that have no ethics and if the mom needs money spent to save her life they will let her die rather than loose their profit. In my opinion those are the puppy mill style breeders.

I did not start that thread to start a war. I started it so hopefully new breeders would be able to read some true life situations that others have gone through so they will be fully prepared for what can and will at some point in time, maybe sooner, maybe later, happen.

[bloane]

But where are the postives of BREEDING?-
There definately are positives of breeding. It is AMAZING to see the results of careful breeding choices. It is awesome to watch your baby hedgehogs learn about the world around them. It is great to watch the faces of your babies' new owners light up when they meet their new hedgehog.
What about the good times you have with your Hedgies?-
Honestly, if you want good times, breeding isn't really your best way of getting that. When you have a pregnant female, you are looking at several weeks of very minimal contact with her. You have to be very careful about contact with her from a week before she is due until her babies are close to 2 weeks old, sometimes older.
And are you all breeding for the betterment?-
For me, definately so. None of the other reasons make much sense in my world. ;) Fame- better ways of getting it. Fortune- LOL I wish. Friends- Yep, sure, some. But you can make friends without breeding, and you can make a **** of a lot of enemies by breeding.
I hear you all say you started more than a few years ago?-
Yep, I started over 5 years ago.
Who helped you learn. was it through trial and error?-
To some extent, yes, it was through trial and error. But I was also lucky enough to hook up with some other breeders that were willing to help me learn faster.
And Didn't breeding start some where?-
Yep, and the way that it started would make many people now cringe from the "stupid" mistakes that were made.

I know there are quite a few breeders out there that aren't supportive, and are even jealous of anyone else invading their "territory". Personally, I LOVE supporting and mentoring people who are considering breeding. Does this mean I am going to blow smoke up their butt and tell them that they should definately be breeding even if they don't have a clue what they are doing? Heck no. I admit I have even gotten quite crabby a few times with individuals who convinced me that they were in it for the wrong reasons, or not willing to make sure that every effort to do things for the benefit of the hedgehogs. And it is amazing (and scary) how many of these people are out there.
Becca

[PrincessHedge]

I just wanted to say Thanks to you both for your Replies and keepin it from a Huge all out War. I have many Many things to learn. And I sure hope that I meet more Friends than Foes within the Hedgie Circle. I have met alot of you and you all know who you are thanks to everyone.

Have A Wonderful Day

Many Blessing to All of you, your Families including all Hedgies and other animals :D

I also wanted to add that yes I do want to Breed in the Near Future and hope that I can get ALOT of Information from all those who are BREEDERS and Non Breeders. So Thank you in Advance for all the help and support to come my way. :slurp:

[HedgieMomma]

I only read the original post as it is late here, but I wanted to comment on one thing in particular-
Who helped you learn.
Before we bought our first hedgehog, we researched them and their care for about 18 months, and spoke to numerous owners and breeders. When we got our first hedgehog, we owned him for a year before we decided that he was the most amazing thing to us! Our love and our fascination for hedgehogs grew. During that time I started researching the breeding, and I made sure to find two breeders that would mentor me through everything if I needed.
At first I only had one pair, and I only bred twice a year, and didn't get another female for a long time. Then slowly as my knowledge grew, I would add a female here and there. I was very selective and worked closely with other breeders.
The only reason we got into breeding because we truly love hedgehogs, and we live in a state where no one was breeding and people we talked to wanted hedgehogs but couldn't afford to have one flown in for a pet. We had the first hand experience and knowledge of properly caring for these animals, we knew we would be devoted to bettering the breed, and we knew we could share our knowledge and love by becoming responsible breeders. One thing is for sure- there are more heartaches with breeding a hedgehog than compared to that of breeding cats or dogs, and your heart has to be in this for the right reasons. Those people who don't do it for the right reasons will gain first hand experience of the heartaches, and those who are fit for breeding won't last long being hedgehog breeders. They are very expensive animals to own when it comes to vet care, because being a breeder, you will experience things that will be more expensive than what most are accustomed to having compared to breeding a cat or dog.
Just wanted to share that little note, but I know personally I can't imagine life without my prickly critters, and they are my babies!

[orchidofpurple]

Great thread Princesshedge guess bloodlines have to start someplace you are right everyone here had to start with no pedigree or lineage I breed because I like the animal no matter if I sell them or not I do not need to sell them. But only the ones that allow handling and show good tempers are sold from my hedgies and the others are fixed and placed in school settings so even if someone gets them later in life they cannot breed a challenged hedgehog we also run a rescue and the first thing that has to happen is the person giving up their hedgie has to pay to have them fixed no matter what color they are this is the only way to avoid breeding a hedgie that you do not know how old it is or what it has been fed or traits like little lillie see she has whs and is special needs but even then we had her fixed so no accidents. everyone starts somewhere but the question is when they are no longer worth alot of money to breeders like the current chinchilla problem will people just dump them. hope not but it will be interesting to find out.

Del Dawns biggest pet

[PrincessHedge]

HedgieMomma
& orchidofpurple,

I just want to say thanks for the info and responding in a poliet and informative way. :applause: I really Appreciate it, :D
Many Blessings to you and your Hedgies

[Ododad]

I'm sorry, but no responsible breeder here started with hedgies of unknown linage. Show me one breeder that did. Just one. Yes the blood line has to start somewhere, blood lines were developed about 12 yrs ago. It's frowned upon in all the hedgie world to start a breeding program with hedgies of unknown history. If someone wanted to breed hedgies, there are plenty of breeding pairs avaliable that have linage and pedigrees or breeding single hedgies with the same. It's just plain stupid to say that everyone here started with no pedigree or linage. And completely false.

"While the concept of spaying and neutering hedgehogs has been tried in a couple of places, the fact that their sexual organs are located so far internally, in what is a small animal to begin with, makes this an extremely dangerous and delicate operation, even in the hands of those who know what they are doing. The survival rate for this type of operation is below 50% from all the figures I have seen. In effect, it's not a worthwhile risk.
Given that most male/female groups of hedgehogs are not overly social except during mating, (and even then it can often be a tentative truce at best) it is unlikely that spaying/neutering is anything you need to worry about. It is uncertain if it will help much in getting male/male groups to get along without fights, and it isn't needed in female/female groups.

In addition to all of this, I suspect you will be hard pressed to find a veterinarian who could (let alone would) do the operation, though some do exist who have done it."
This is from Brian MacNamara of HedgeHog Valley.

It is unreal to expect us to believe that a rescue shelter would require for the person giving up the hedgie to pay upwards of $1200.00 for the hedgie to be "fixed". Not to mention finding a vet that would even do it if the hedgies life was not in danger. I checked, $1200.00 is pretty much the going rate for this procedure. The best way to avoid breeding a hedgie is to keep males away from females.

"Great thread Princesshedge guess bloodlines have to start someplace you are right everyone here had to start with no pedigree or lineage I breed because I like the animal no matter if I sell them or not I do not need to sell them. But only the ones that allow handling and show good tempers are sold from my hedgies and the others are fixed and placed in school settings so even if someone gets them later in life they cannot breed a challenged hedgehog we also run a rescue and the first thing that has to happen is the person giving up their hedgie has to pay to have them fixed no matter what color they are this is the only way to avoid breeding a hedgie that you do not know how old it is or what it has been fed or traits like little lillie see she has whs and is special needs but even then we had her fixed so no accidents. everyone starts somewhere but the question is when they are no longer worth alot of money to breeders like the current chinchilla problem will people just dump them. hope not but it will be interesting to find out."
This entire post makes little sense and I don't believe a word of it.

[Nancy]

"While the concept of spaying and neutering hedgehogs has been tried in a couple of places, the fact that their sexual organs are located so far internally, in what is a small animal to begin with, makes this an extremely dangerous and delicate operation, even in the hands of those who know what they are doing. The survival rate for this type of operation is below 50% from all the figures I have seen. In effect, it's not a worthwhile risk.
Given that most male/female groups of hedgehogs are not overly social except during mating, (and even then it can often be a tentative truce at best) it is unlikely that spaying/neutering is anything you need to worry about. It is uncertain if it will help much in getting male/male groups to get along without fights, and it isn't needed in female/female groups.

In addition to all of this, I suspect you will be hard pressed to find a veterinarian who could (let alone would) do the operation, though some do exist who have done it."
This is from Brian MacNamara of HedgeHog Valley.

This information is old and out of date. Spaying a female hedgehog is no different than spaying any small animal. The death rate is minimal even with emergency spays where the hedgehog is retaining dead babies, cancer or other issues. I believe Tawana watched the spay on Annabelle and it was a very quick proceedure. Correct me if I am wrong Tawana.

Males on the other hand are more difficult and there is no benefit to neutering a male.

[Ododad]

I guess I owe an apology to Orchidofpurple then. I can admit when I am wrong and am doing so now.
Orchidofpurple, please forgive me. I should be more sure of my facts before I open my mouth. I apologize.