Owning hedgehogs in illegal states

[hanatsuki]

heh-heh, sorry i forgot this was a debate, got a lil excited. :laugh:

anyways, as for owning exotic animals illegally in a particular state, I think most owners have taken in consideration the consequences of owning that particular animal and of course do take precautions. I dont think its fair for people to look down on us who do because we do responsibly care for our animals. Its like say to people who cut into the carpool lane who arent carpooling or people who walk out of the store without paying and realize it dont usually go back into the store and pay. We dont go reporting people like that around whereas we see a animal from a window that is illegal and go report it. That person may think they're doing the right thing, but would you rather do that and have an innocent animal put down that didnt do anything to you?
Not to mention 50% of the ferret population in the United States resides in CA, but then I guess the laws that states put down on owning animals I would say be reasonable because it would make less than responsible owners to think twice about owning that particular exotic and there would be less animals to be left at a shelter or abandoned on the street.
Great thing about CA that vets aren't required to report any animals that they treat, so good for us :) Plus in areas that I live in CA are so ubanized that it would be more likely that my animals would become roadkill or stray cat/dog food.
But i'd admit, there are irresponsible people out there, one example would be my friend who brought sugar gliders over the border from Nevada. (dont know how she did that, guess she was lucky) She bought them impulsively and had no experience with them. After realizing she had no time for them, she gave them to me. I'd rather take care of them then risking taking them back to Nevada (which will stress them out) and then selling them a person who may be not as a responsible owner.
Anyways, I hope you legal pet owners dont look down upon us so much, we love and care about babies as much as you do, if not more or less.

I hope i made sense :rolleyes:

[oXo_HogMom_oXo]

Hey guys, I just wanted to say that ... There is no reason why an owner can't get off their butt and find another loving forever home in a legal state to ensure the safty of their beloved pet. Specially since they KNOW it's illegal (which makes everything worse). Willingly endangering an innocent life.

The only reason I see someone would take their pet into an illegal state is if they are greedy (not loving, but greedy). Because there's either money involved, the high of knowing you are doing something illegal, OR you want to be a brag about what exotic animals you own.

If you truely love your pet, you wouldn't even second guess taking them into an illegal state just because there is a percent chance of it being destroyed. If you love your pet as much as you say, why destroy it.

I also want to say that I'm moving to Arizona in the begining of May. Arizona is an illegal state for hedgies... I am NOT taking Chunk with me because I love him enough to let go and let him live out his hedgie life in SAFTEY. I don't want to worry about who's going to knock down my door and kill my pet, or what stranger might adopt him and then not take care of him.

I love him to much for that....

[Megan.]

Hog mom,

Please show me were I made money off my two FEMALE hedgehogs. All I can show you is where I spent money to insure they got high quality diets, vet charges, bedding bills, cage bills, toy bills. That is NOT making money; it's spending money. Please tell me how I did not love my hedgehogs.

I don't see how I had a "High" of having an illegal animal. Especially because very few people knew I had them, and I didn't flant owning them. Again, I didn't have them to brag about them. I simply rescued a hedgehog who was dumped in a petstore, purchased a friend for her and had PA turn them into illegal animals.

If at any time I thought they were in danger, I would have rehomed them. No one ever gave me a problem---because I didn't brag about them. They lived nice long, happy, healthy lives here.

I wasn't about to dump them, either. Love is not dumping your animal. I can easily say that you don't love your hedgehog. That if you loved it you'd move elsewhere where he'd be legal.... Besides, I thought you can own hedgies in AZ with a permit(Which is hard to aquire, though).

[oXo_HogMom_oXo]

Well Megan, you tell me where to get a permit to own a hedgie in less then a week and I'll take him with. And yes, you did put your hedgie in danger just by taking it with you. That's all there is to it. If someone, anyone, whether you bragged or not found out and turned you in... heh.

That's selfish, and I'm sure there are others around that agree because I've read quite a few replies about it. Oh well, people think that they are right no matter what they do.

And I'm not dumping Chunk, if I was and I didn't care who he went to I would have ''dumped'' him off at a shelter, the neighbors or the petstore down the road. Now that's dumping an animal... when you don't care where or who it goes to. I do care.

How do you know I don't ''have to'' move to AZ and not going for sheer pleasure? Don't accuse enless you know the whole background. And it's people like you who make me keep my problems to myself. You read to much into things, or if one answer doesn't suit the problem (heaven forbid it be a good answer) you make up one that's bad. Give people bad names, bad attitudes and not want to use this forum and speak with anyone.

If I didn't have to move, or if there was any way I could take my hedgie with me, believe me, I'd be making arrangements for him to go.

[hanatsuki]

its also not completely fair to say by leaving your hedgehog behind because of laws is not loving your hedgehog either. we all have different views of love where some people will take their hedgehogs along while others will leave behind. Its like for example, say your child is illegal in a state where you are forced to move. Now will you bring your child with you or leave him/her behind with someone else? Some of else will say bring, some will not. I dont think this is a bad example either because most of us consider our pets like/are children

[Megan.]

Personally, I wasn't saying she didn't"love" her hedgehog because she was leaving it behind. What I was saying is me saying that, would be exactly the same thing she had said.

As far as me being the cause that people won't post about their problems, I highly doubt it. How many posts of mine have you read? Please tell me where I read too far into the posts that I answer to. Please tell me where I don't accept other peoples views(pretty much what you are saying).

I may have put the hedgies in danger yes, but nothing bad came out of it. I took the proper precautions and they got to live out their life happy, loved, and taken care of without being shuffled from home to home.

[Megan.]

Hog mom--- Never mind. I now remember who you are, and know where you saw some of my posts.

You may remember me from a nice debate awhile ago, and yes I stood on my views there--because of the fact that I highly disagreed with what happened. You know what I'm talking about, but I'm not going to go into more detail and get things started yet again.

[southcalihedgie]

I guess this all started when I made the mistake of posting on this site, and mentioned that I lived in ca. I was attacked immediately for supposetly for endagering my animals, bragging, and being reckless. At first I could not understand why people were so hostile towards me, because I care for my HH and am repsonsible. Then I also mentioned that I do havea permit...then instead of apologizing for assuming I was an illegal ower I was attacked for not telling them sooner :| . Even though I own my HH legally I do not look down on illegal owers. Many of them are close friends, and are caring/responsible owners. Many people and officials know the law is out dated, unenforced, and ignored by animal control. Most of them do not agree with the law and instead focus on the huge stray dog and cat population.

California is a wierd state. There are laws banning exotics like HH and ferrets, but there is no enforcement of the law. You can buy all of the HH and ferret supplies you need and vets are happy to see them. As I got my permit approved I talked to the animal control official as they inspected my home and asked them if they ever had to euthanize or confiscate a HH or ferret if they were found or reported, he said that he has not. Instead the gave the person the option of placing the animal with a organization that will take the animal to a legal state. In most cases he said that they intentionally turn a blind eye, because they do not want to harm an animal or remove it from a loving home. Every official I have talked to agrees that the law should be changed, but agree that it will not happen anytime soon because it is an enviromental law which in ca it is nearly impossible to over turn. Because it is a law that is supposed to protect the environment and in a state where the environment is a hot issue any enviromental law will not be overturned without a fight.

Bottom line I think people should make their own choices as long as they are aware of the facts. And I do not think people have to repeat the same tired "Hedgehogs are illegal in ca" line it has already been done to death so give it a rest. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, but being hostile, rude, and preachy to an individual is pointless. It will not make them change thier minds. If you do like it do not read or respond to the post. I am not saying that it is right to break the law, what I am saying is that people will make thier own choices on this issue. And me lecturing them will change nothing, so why bother. Intead use this wonderful site to meet other owners who share this common interest, or to help other owners in need. Or as a learning tool to expand you knowledge to make life even better for you beloved pet. Why use this site to spread anger, resentment, and rumors. It is such a shame :( .

Thanks for you time.

[oXo_HogMom_oXo]

I agree Hanatsuki, Chunk is like my little kid.. but I wouldn't risk having him killed. I would rather him have a forever home where he is legal then taken the chance of someone taking him away to an uncertain and possibly gruesome future. Even if I didn't say a word about him, there is always this possibility... some visitor, someone slipping up accidently, a fire or other accident... the vet not being honest... you never know what could happen. I'd feel aweful of someone took Chunk from me because I was irresponcible and broke the law and put my animal in danger...

But then again, other people have other views... I know how painful it is just to put an add up, let alone actually talking to someone who is intrested in buying Chunk. It's a horrible feeling, but I guess you just have to suck it up and know that it's for the very best.

...another thing to think about... is... not only are you putting an innocent life in danger but... you ARE breaking the law. I don't know, I personally think it's unfair to put you and your animal in a situation like that and then to know you are betraying your state's laws.

[yourmine]

Bottom line I think people should make their own choices as long as they are aware of the facts. And I do not think people have to repeat the same tired "Hedgehogs are illegal in ca" line it has already been done to death so give it a rest. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, but being hostile, rude, and preachy to an individual is pointless. It will not make them change thier minds. If you do like it do not read or respond to the post. I am not saying that it is right to break the law, what I am saying is that people will make thier own choices on this issue. And me lecturing them will change nothing, so why bother. Intead use this wonderful site to meet other owners who share this common interest, or to help other owners in need. Or as a learning tool to expand you knowledge to make life even better for you beloved pet. Why use this site to spread anger, resentment, and rumors. It is such a shame :( .

I actually agree with you here southcalihedgie, but what I don't agree with is anyone who would encourage people to own hedgies in illegal areas or even provide hedgies to people in illegal areas. :eek: You're right, everyone will make their own choices concerning whether or not to abide by outdated laws, but I don't think that breaking these laws should EVER be encouraged. I mean, its like we know there are people out there in the world that use illegal drugs, and some even use them responsibly and will never get caught. But should those people encourage other people to start using drugs? I think not!