Breeding Animals Petition

[AminalTales]

besides,

I think the real problem lies with people who purchase the pets not the people who supply them.
.
Ok ok so if I breed say 50 dogs and let them go to just anyone.. its not my fault where they end up? Its the people who paid me $500 a pop for a pup or kittens fault? Don't you think its also the lack of responsably screening and educating a customer? I would definietly blame the breeder for a dog ending up in a rescue or shelter if I see the owner is obviously stupid and uneducated.I would also blame them for not taking the dog back or making the people sign a contract to give the dog back to them. Its not just the people who "purchase" the animals. Although many times it is.


Thankyou Katieedyd and Megan. Smarties! You're right on target. I agree with you both. It REALLY infuriates me that 100% of blame get pegged on the breeder. Which is rediculous! You'd be surprised the front people can put up to even the sharpest breeder and get their animal and it ends up in the shelter. Not by fauly of the breeder. Its the fault of the buyer who thought they could bring home a fluffy puppy and it'd be completely trained and small forever.
Its also the breeders resposability to educate the customer on things like it not being fully trained and a fluffy puppy forever.
No one put the blame 100% on the breeders. Maybe you should re-read everything. In infuriates me when people do not read! I replied to you before with "All breeders even the good ones play a big role" I didn't say it was all their fault.
As I said it will not work regardless because no one is going to take the time on something like that (not a plan). No it isn't planned out but I support the idea. Ideas have to come from somewhere and if someone doesn't get enough support they will never fully try to really do something about a situation. Bashing someone and calling them or their petitions silly or ridiculous for even thinking of it is sheer stupidity.

[AminalTales]

I also think this should be moved into the debate section if it goes any further. Its clearly based on peoples OPINIONS. I usually stay out of the debate section because of crap like this to begin with. People putting words into others fingers etc. So maybe it can be moved out of the "other animals" section? I know I personally won't go over there to argue with breeders. Or maybe it should just be removed since obviously a lot of breeders are going to get deffensive.

[Sketch]

Perhaps while being blinded by your own opinion you missed my original post where I said I think her ambition is great however I thought the petition was bland and needed more detail.. If I thought it wasn't a good idea don't you think I would have written down that it was "Sheer Stupidity" and that she shouldn't do it? No instead I opened up more ideas about how many questions the petition is up against. And that I'm willing to support what I understand. Notice you're the one fight me on this and you're not the one who posted the petition nor knew her exact intentions. You argue with me and use god's name in vain [I'm not religeous but thats not the point] while speaking directly to me while I have not once been severely rude or abrasive. Is it wrong to give constructive criticism? Do you really think the people out there totally against this are going to be nicer than I have been? Why aren't buyers reading up on dogs and their needs. Matching themselves up to a species that perhaps would fit them best. Do you breed dogs? Have you ever seen a buyer come up and try to blind you with the whole "I grew up with dogs, My dog just died.. " They drive from 4 hours away to buy what they think they need and they turn out to dump it off or be an animal hoarder. Must we as breeders do 100% of the work and defend what we love so that buyers can continue to be idiots and be protected? I don't think so. I'm going to be quite frank.. My first post wasn't directed towards you. You didn't even post the thread.. So naturally I find it Rude that you start defending it as your own and choosing because extremely defensive over something you should have let be and watched mature. Perhaps the original thread starter would have seen it in a whole other light than you. Either way I'm not willing to conversate with you about this anymore. You took it the wrong way and made it a battle of breeders and Pet Owners which is bad concidering alot of here are both and will protect our rights as both.

To the original thread start/owner. My Appologies about the personal debate between me and any other on your thread. Perhaps maybe closing this down and starting over again while I venture away from it may be the better way to go. This conversation will be blinding to other while you try to get your point across. However again I think perhaps molding this idea of yours into something more detailed and structured will help other understand rather than guess. Good Luck, and again.. I support what I understand. You're more than welcome to PM me.. While we have a difference in opinions sometimes thats what it takes. Two different opinions/parties/sides coming together to find a solution that realistaclly meets in the middle.

[AminalTales]

Perhaps while being blinded by your own opinion you missed my original post where I said I think her ambition is great however I thought the petition was bland and needed more detail.. If I thought it wasn't a good idea don't you think I would have written down that it was "Sheer Stupidity" and that she shouldn't do it? No instead I opened up more ideas about how many questions the petition is up against. And that I'm willing to support what I understand. Notice you're the one fight me on this and you're not the one who posted the petition nor knew her exact intentions. You argue with me and use god's name in vain [I'm not religeous but thats not the point] while speaking directly to me while I have not once been severely rude or abrasive.
If you are not religious then don't bring it up.. its a figure of speach not meant to put down a religion. :rolleyes:

Why aren't buyers reading up on dogs and their needs. Matching themselves up to a species that perhaps would fit them best.
Why aren't breeders educating their customers before selling?

Do you breed dogs? Have you ever seen a buyer come up and try to blind you with the whole "I grew up with dogs, My dog just died.. " They drive from 4 hours away to buy what they think they need and they turn out to dump it off or be an animal hoarder.
NO I don't breed and would never even consider it in this world and lifetime. However I deal with cats and dogs almost every day, run adoptions and deal with the abused and neglected to much for myself to even handle anymore. I hear every excuse in the book and see some of the worst situations. I've heard too many stories but have learned to pretty much ask trick questions, properly screen and what to watch out for. And once they mention any past animals a vet refference is always checked. I don't give in and let anyone adopt because there other dog died or what have you. Thast no excuse and should't make it hard for anyone.


Must we as breeders do 100% of the work and defend what we love so that buyers can continue to be idiots and be protected? I don't think so.
If you are taking the responsability of breeding animals and bringing lives into this world then yes I think you should do 100% of the work. The work wouldn't need to be done by you if you weren't breeding though, it would have to be done by other breeders and rescues such as myself trying to make up for the rest who don't. The ones who don't put in the work and properly educate their potential customers are the breeders I do not agree with. Actually I do not really agree with any breeders right now even though I am friends with many but I would rather see the good ones who put EVERYTHING into it breed then anyone else. I also think owners and buyers should do their research as well but I think it is more im portant for the breeders to be educated and educate incase the buyers don't.
I'm going to be quite frank.. My first post wasn't directed towards you. You didn't even post the thread.. So naturally I find it Rude that you start defending it as your own and choosing because extremely defensive over something you should have let be and watched mature.
Thats good my first post wasn't towards you either. I have been responding to many not just you. I didn't start deffending it as my own, I voiced my opinion after reading posts . The rest of your sentence just doesn't make sense. I don't see how me responding instead of sitting back and not saying anything is rude regardless.
Perhaps the original thread starter would have seen it in a whole other light than you. ANd perhaps she still will. Unless she lost the ability to read I don't see why she can't still agree or see it in another light.
Either way I'm not willing to conversate with you about this anymore. You took it the wrong way and made it a battle of breeders and Pet Owners which is bad concidering alot of here are both and will protect our rights as both. Good and I won't loose any sleep over this. I didn't make it battle of the breeders and pet owners at all. I am friends with many breeders and only respect a certain kind of breeder. I did say that ALL breeders(this including those of my breeder friends) contribute to the over population. My opinion is as much as it is pet owners responsability to research and take care of their animals I would think it would be more on the breeders being they are taking bringing life into the world in their own hands. DO I blame breeders for there being stupid people in the world? NO but I blame them to selling to the obvious ones or not educating the not so obvious anyway.

[Shimmer]

I really don't think the problem is breeding for profit but breeding irresponsibly and unknowledgeably. I don't see anything wrong with breeding for profit if the animals' best interests are upheld. (Not that most good breeders actually make much profit). If the petition left out the profit part, it really wouldn't have an issue with responsible breeders. I think it's really the irresponsible breeders that the original poster has a problem with. The original post doesn't completely reflect the purpose of the petition. That being said, I still would not sign the petition because of other inherent problems with the solution.

I don't like that so much blame is being placed on responsible breeders(by some people). I think there are far more irresponsible breeders out there than responsible ones unfortunately. Good breeders can only do their best to ensure that the animal goes to a good home and is "fixed" if sold as "pet only". I truly believe that irresponsible breeders and irresponsible owners are the source of the problem. Without them, there would be far fewer animals in shelters.

Right now, I'm sitting in a room with 3 kittens and their mother. The kittens are the result of an irresponsible owner letting their unspayed cat outside. They are here because my sister took them in after the mother's original owners moved and left the mother behind (and pregnant). I'm not sure where the mother was purchased or if her breeder was a responsible one. I don't place the blame for this situation on the breeder however. It was the owner's responsibility to get the cat spayed. Even the best breeder cannot control everything.

I'm about to make a comparision that make be taken the wrong way: If I go for a walk right now, I'm sure to find some Tim Horton's cups littering the ground. By selling coffee, Tim Horton's did not intend to add to the litter around here; they needed something to hold the coffee they sold. They could not control what people did with their coffee cups after leaving the store. They put a little note on the cups that says something like "Please protect the environment" or "Please do not litter"...They tried to discourage people from littering but they can only do so much.

Animals are much more important than coffee cups...but the idea is the same. Good breeders don't intend for their animals to be "thrown away". They make efforts to educate owners but their power ends there....and so should the blame.

[Sketch]

Shimmer, wonderfully done. You put it the way I wish I would have. Especially the last portion.

[AminalTales]

I really don't think the problem is breeding for profit but breeding irresponsibly and unknowledgeably. I don't see anything wrong with breeding for profit if the animals' best interests are upheld. (Not that most good breeders actually make much profit). If the petition left out the profit part, it really wouldn't have an issue with responsible breeders. I think it's really the irresponsible breeders that the original poster has a problem with. The original post doesn't completely reflect the purpose of the petition. That being said, I still would not sign the petition because of other inherent problems with the solution.

I don't like that so much blame is being placed on responsible breeders(by some people). I think there are far more irresponsible breeders out there than responsible ones unfortunately. Good breeders can only do their best to ensure that the animal goes to a good home and is "fixed" if sold as "pet only". I truly believe that irresponsible breeders and irresponsible owners are the source of the problem. Without them, there would be far fewer animals in shelters.

Right now, I'm sitting in a room with 3 kittens and their mother. The kittens are the result of an irresponsible owner letting their unspayed cat outside. They are here because my sister took them in after the mother's original owners moved and left the mother behind (and pregnant). I'm not sure where the mother was purchased or if her breeder was a responsible one. I don't place the blame for this situation on the breeder however. It was the owner's responsibility to get the cat spayed. Even the best breeder cannot control everything.

I'm about to make a comparision that make be taken the wrong way: If I go for a walk right now, I'm sure to find some Tim Horton's cups littering the ground. By selling coffee, Tim Horton's did not intend to add to the litter around here; they needed something to hold the coffee they sold. They could not control what people did with their coffee cups after leaving the store. They put a little note on the cups that says something like "Please protect the environment" or "Please do not litter"...They tried to discourage people from littering but they can only do so much.

Animals are much more important than coffee cups...but the idea is the same. Good breeders don't intend for their animals to be "thrown away". They make efforts to educate owners but their power ends there....and so should the blame.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Except the coffee cups thing LOL :p
Thats why people get fined when caught littering. Anyway yes the problem stems from so many different things. I just do not understand why people would still feel the need to breed when there are just so many out there needing homes anyway. Apparently the homeless aren't quality enough to be mans best friend or pet.
In this case the breeder didn't alter the cat before selling which I think is irresponsible but thats MO. I do not think its her fault that the owner decided to let her out although there should be a contract stating otherwise, but again IMO why risk that chance knowing how many are already out there suffering and getting pregnant as it is. I will stop here though before I get off topic and into other stuff lol.

Oh and I personally do not see why any "responsible" breeder would be against or have a problem being tested or becoming licensed if they do everything the correct way anyway, regardless of how many animals they were limited to etc. Obviously population is a problem so why would a limit as to how many stop you from doing the correct thing? Again I do not know what this so called licensing would include but I would have to assume only the really good, quality breeders with legit vets and documents would be able to pass. How many more animals being brought into the world will it take for people to realize it needs to be cut down on bigtime. Hobby or not, quality or not its becoming too serious and just cruel anymore.

[tunes]

Oh and I personally do not see why any "responsible" breeder would be against or have a problem being tested or becoming licensed if they do everything the correct way anyway, regardless of how many animals they were limited to etc. Obviously population is a problem so why would a limit as to how many stop you from doing the correct thing? Again I do not know what this so called licensing would include but I would have to assume only the really good, quality breeders with legit vets and documents would be able to pass.

Just curious - Who will decide these things? Who will decide what constitutes a "responsible breeder"? For instance - Many people breed in runs and a lot of pet people are against that. Does that make them irresponsible breeders? Or, how about the large ranchers? Just because they don't keep a vet on staff, does that make them irresponsible? Most large ranchers can do the vet care for their herds themselves. Would they then be shut down?

How about food? How many arguments do you see on here regarding food? Is there going to be a standard for food - only so much protein, only spring or reverse osmosis water, only shavings manufactured at such and such a place........the list is endless. It's going to be the same in the dog, cat, and any other animal world.

Who is going to decide what would be acceptable as a responsible breeder?

[Megan.]

Great questions.

As a breeder, I don't want someone to come in and say I can only have two breeding females. I want to be able to breed as many of my females that I want, at any given time if I feel they are quality enough to breed.

If I have 6 females that litter, and give me 12 babies at the same time..How is that different if I have to alernate say 2 females in and out of breeding(Keep in mind there are 6 females), and between them they still give me 12 babies?

I'm still creating 12 babies.

[alpayton]

Since this thread has become so controversial versus informative, it has been moved to the debate section....have at it.