Qualities for pets vs. qualities for show

[michelle m]

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, but i was just curious what people thought about the differences in qualities that you look for in pets versus qualities you need for shows. Then that leads to a discussion about what qualities you look for when breeding. For example - ebonies tend to be smaller than whites so if you are going for white ebonies because they are fun pets, you take the chance of decreasing the size of the white animal in a show where all whites are compared whether or not ebony is in them and therefor decreasing your chances of winning 1st or 2nd. What do you think?

[tunes]

I am not understanding on many of these threads why people think that buying a great quality chin excludes them as great pets. Do chins only have to be scrawny, ratty, nasty furred animals for them to be a loveable pet? Of course not. I will state again that you can have the nastiest animal on earth throw the most wonderful kits and the most wonderful animal on earth throw nasty kits. If you are looking for great personality WORK with your chins. Spend time with them. White ebonies are no more fun as pets than a "plain ole standard."

As far as what most people look for when purchasing breeding animals, I would imagine they look for a) what they want, b) what they feel will complement what they have, and c) what they can afford. Not everyone can afford to go to MCBA Nationals and buy the grand show champion (that's if you could even get the breeder to sell him/her). But you should get the best quality animal you possibly can before breeding them. On the other hand, quality does not always equal high price. If you are diligent and not impulse buying, taking your time to look for what you want instead of grabbing anything you can get your hands on, you generally can find a great animal in your price range and breed better animals instead of just cheaper animals.

Just as an aside, for your comment on ebonies making whites offspring smaller - That's not true in many, many cases. I had an ebony female here that was 975 gm. I have males that are 750 and females that are anywhere from 700-825 still. I would hardly think they are going to decrease the size of a white I might put them with.

[michelle m]

I am not understanding on many of these threads why people think that buying a great quality chin excludes them as great pets. Do chins only have to be scrawny, ratty, nasty furred animals for them to be a loveable pet? Of course not. I will state again that you can have the nastiest animal on earth throw the most wonderful kits and the most wonderful animal on earth throw nasty kits. If you are looking for great personality WORK with your chins. Spend time with them. White ebonies are no more fun as pets than a "plain ole standard."

As far as what most people look for when purchasing breeding animals, I would imagine they look for a) what they want, b) what they feel will complement what they have, and c) what they can afford. Not everyone can afford to go to MCBA Nationals and buy the grand show champion (that's if you could even get the breeder to sell him/her). But you should get the best quality animal you possibly can before breeding them. On the other hand, quality does not always equal high price. If you are diligent and not impulse buying, taking your time to look for what you want instead of grabbing anything you can get your hands on, you generally can find a great animal in your price range and breed better animals instead of just cheaper animals.

Just as an aside, for your comment on ebonies making whites offspring smaller - That's not true in many, many cases. I had an ebony female here that was 975 gm. I have males that are 750 and females that are anywhere from 700-825 still. I would hardly think they are going to decrease the size of a white I might put them with.
sorry, i really didn't mean to upset you. I wasn't trying to start a fight. What i ment by "fun" is the interesting coloring you get out of that mix. And i know that it is not in every case that ebonies are smaller only that they can be. I also know that if you are trying to improve any mutation you will want to put them with herd improvement standards, although you will get a lot of dirty bellied kits when mixing with ebonies that would be good to put back into an ebony line, but wouldn't be good for the show tables. see what i'm trying to say here. maybe i'm not being clear about what my question is. I'm just trying to start a discusion and if you think that i'm inexperianced or impulse buying, then you don't know me. I think all chins make great pets, what i've experianced is that animals with smaller ears and great mosaic markings are highly prized in the pet world. I think that there are two seperate "qualities" that breeders look at when disiding to breed. One for shows and one for pets and i would like to have a civilized conversation about this. thanks

[CHINCHILDREN]

sorry, i really didn't mean to upset you. I wasn't trying to start a fight. What i ment by "fun" is the interesting coloring you get out of that mix. And i know that it is not in every case that ebonies are smaller only that they can be. I also know that if you are trying to improve any mutation you will want to put them with herd improvement standards, although you will get a lot of dirty bellied kits when mixing with ebonies that would be good to put back into an ebony line, but wouldn't be good for the show tables. see what i'm trying to say here. maybe i'm not being clear about what my question is. I'm just trying to start a discusion and if you think that i'm inexperianced or impulse buying, then you don't know me. I think all chins make great pets, what i've experianced is that animals with smaller ears and great mosaic markings are highly prized in the pet world. I think that there are two seperate "qualities" that breeders look at when disiding to breed. One for shows and one for pets and i would like to have a civilized conversation about this. thanks
i don't think any of use breed for 'pet.' true that if we get an animal with a 'cute' face, small ears, and great markings it can sell fast and for a lot of money but i don't thin that is what we breed for. JMO

[Chingal]

I think when choosing a pet you look for personality, price, and a color you like ( at least I did, when I just had chins for pets ).

Since I started showing and looking at a long term future goal for my chinchilla lines I have have concentrated more on better size, fur, etc than what I had with my "pets". Did I give up on my pets no, I just purchased better mates and slowly over the years upgraded to breeding certain chins to certain chins ( usually when I purchase a chin now I ask for a certain color ,certain sex out of certain parents, where as before I was showing I would call the breeder I did business with and say "Hey, I need an ebony male for so and so". They are still my pets , but the way I pick out mates has evolved into being very precise in what I am getting.

[tunes]

Michelle - I don't see where you think I was upset or "uncivilized." You asked a question, I answered it. I am seeing more and more where people want to breed for pets because they have poor quality chins with "nice personalities." Nice personalities can be made just with handling and care. Using the excuse of breeding poor quality animals because they are "nice" doesn't cut it. Show quality animals have great personalities too!

Edited to add - I don't believe I called you impulsive. I thought your question was a general one where you were asking for a range of opinions. The "you" in that comment is a general term, not a YOU pointing fingers comment.

[Becky]

To me, they are one in the same, but I know that's not true for everyone. You want pets to be pretty and friendly and healthy. Breeding/show animals should be pretty and friendly and healthy.

There are now many good quality mutation animals out there. For some colors (violets, sapphires) you have to look harder than for others. It is possible to breed good quality "fancy" colors, if you go about it the right way, choosing only quality breeding animals. The more mutations you mix into an animal, though, the harder it is to keep the animal good quality. Breeding standards into a line is always a good thing, if the standard is a super nice quality. It doesn't have to be done every generation, but should happen often.


Becky

[michelle m]

Michelle - I don't see where you think I was upset or "uncivilized." You asked a question, I answered it. I am seeing more and more where people want to breed for pets because they have poor quality chins with "nice personalities." Nice personalities can be made just with handling and care. Using the excuse of breeding poor quality animals because they are "nice" doesn't cut it. Show quality animals have great personalities too!

Edited to add - I don't believe I called you impulsive. I thought your question was a general one where you were asking for a range of opinions. The "you" in that comment is a general term, not a YOU pointing fingers comment.

As long as you aren't upset. i see you were posting in some other thread about pet vs. show and i can see how you might have thought that is what i'm talking about. I'm not. I know lots of people talk about "personalities" of chins. I'm not. I have been getting into the show ring and understanding the different qualities that the show is looking for and i've been in on conversations with top breeders about "pet people" thinking it important to have cute faces. Now i've had the experiance of a few babies being born and what to expect for some crosses and i know that a dirty bellied black velvet can come out of two class champions if your cross is ebony and black. Know that animal might be an exceptional animal except for its dirty belly. You can be marked down points for that and not get as high a prize for that chin, but it would be the perfect animal to "improve" an ebony line that you want to add black to. I think that the ECBC has done a great service for helping us see just how wonderful a chin can look and i want that in my chins because i do think it improves the likability of chins. I also think that great markings and cute faces improves the likability of chins. so i want that as well. I'm not breeding chins so that i have thousands of little fluffys bouncing around. i'm breeding because I want to creat a better chin for everyone to enjoy. I just thought it interesting that sometimes you get great kits that wouldn't fair well at a show because of the mix of their parents and wanted to know what others thought.

I'm sorry i took your response personal. I just thought that i was getting lumped into a group that you weren't happy with because you were bringing up a topic that i wasn't intending to enquire about. glad we were able to clear things up.

[Shuboyje]

If you were not trying to say what others assumed you were, then what is this debate about? I am really clueless right now as what we are to be discussing:).

[michelle m]

i'm afraid that my original point has been lost completely.
I bred my reserve class champion ebony to my 1st place pink white, hoping for a great white tan or tan or ebony that i could possilby show in the future, but what i got looks to be a standard ebony carrier(dirty belly). Now he comes from great stock, but i'm afraid the dirty belly will interfere with winning at a show. I could still use a great dark std eb-carrier for my herd so i could still possibly use him in my ebony line, but it got me thinking about what it takes to win at a show and it is more than good confermation, clarity, vailing, and size. When mixing ebonies into the bunch you run the risk of getting all of the above but lacking the white white belly or size. It also got me thinking back about the conversations that i've been a part of where "pet people", that is those people that breed animals for pets rather than for pelts, were looked down on because they were interested in facial featchers and ear size. maybe that should be a second topic. In any case i am not talking about personalities or breeding low quality animals and because that was brought into this discusion it seems that that is the way this conversation is going. i'm thinking i should just let this topic go and forget that i even tried to bring it up.