Why are there sellers breeding dwarf chins? Dwarfism is not a positive mutation in

[chinma]

any animal, person, etc. It is associated with health problems, and the only thing I can think of of WHY a person would want a dwarf chin is because they're cute and cuddly. So...not thinking of the health of the chin? I don't understand. :dunno:

[hazelwild1]

In my opinion every mutation starts out weak. Responsible breeding strengthens the mutation and decreases the occurrence of negative traits. Eventually dwarf chinchillas will be just as healthy as the normal sized ones. I don't have experience with dwarves but it is sort of like all the specialized dog breeding, there are susceptibilities to genetic complications with each breed but those who breed responsibly have nearly no incidences(thats why you see health guarentees with the high quality breeders, they stake their reputation on their dogs)

From what I do know about dwarves, responsible breeders outcross dwarves to normal sized chins. Only dwarf carrier females are used to breed with dwarf males. Irresponsible breeders will breed their dwarf females and may have a few successful births but it is more likely there will be complications and less healthy offspring because you would have to cross dwarf to dwarf so that the kits wouldnt be too large.

As far as why, it's simple. Look at all the different dog and horse breeds. We can successfully breed for whatever we want. I am not against it as long as each breeder works to improve that mutation.

[HedgeMom]

any animal, person, etc. It is associated with health problems, and the only thing I can think of of WHY a person would want a dwarf chin is because they're cute and cuddly. So...not thinking of the health of the chin? I don't understand. :dunno:

Because they can. And there's big money in it. And they selfishly THINK they are doing the animal a favor by deforming it.

If you search this forum, you'll find this has been discussed before. I've cited every possible source I could find on how dwarfism works, compressing normal size organs, causing bone pain, shortening life expectancy and quality and I've been shouted down with "you're not a breeder, you don't know what you're talking about. It's FINE!"

I personally think it's cruel and inhumane. Just because it has worked in rabbits and goats doesn't mean it should be done in Chinchillas.

As far as why, it's simple. Look at all the different dog and horse breeds. We can successfully breed for whatever we want. I am not against it as long as each breeder works to improve that mutation.

Dog breeders do not deliberately breed in dwarfism. Dwarfism is responsible for the Bassett Hounds foreshortened limbs but that trait fixed many, many decades ago in France without the compressing of the body length and squeezing of the internal organs. And Bassetts pay the price with early arthritis and joint deformities.

And just to be clear, miniature is very different than dwarf.

[Dray]

So Tiny Toy pooples and minitures horses are are considered miniture and not dwarf. And the Dwarf chins are true dwarfs? Just trying to learn.

[The Animal Farm]

I own a dwarf chin. As far as their health goes they have no more special problems than a normal sized chin does, well aside from the fact she will never be bred. There are dwarf chins and then there are just small chins. Dwarfs have a number of characteristics, such as shortened front limbs and face shape.

Most breeders will not breed a known dwarf line. As to others, I think it's similar to all pet breeding. It brings about new lines. That's how we ended with dogs like miniature dobermans.

[chinma]

Because they can. And there's big money in it. And they selfishly THINK they are doing the animal a favor by deforming it.

If you search this forum, you'll find this has been discussed before. I've cited every possible source I could find on how dwarfism works, compressing normal size organs, causing bone pain, shortening life expectancy and quality and I've been shouted down with "you're not a breeder, you don't know what you're talking about. It's FINE!"

I personally think it's cruel and inhumane. Just because it has worked in rabbits and goats doesn't mean it should be done in Chinchillas.





Thanks, that's what I thought (the health problems). I should have done a search before I posted, but I agree with everything you said above :applause:

[HedgeMom]

So Tiny Toy pooples and minitures horses are are considered miniture and not dwarf. And the Dwarf chins are true dwarfs? Just trying to learn.

Toy Poodles, Toy Fox Terriers, Miniature horses are perfectly formed small versions of the bigger animal. So they are not "dwarfs". (Just FYI, the whole Tiny Toy thing is a marketing ploy for selling runts).

Dwarfism is a very specific set of deformities, depending on the type dwarfism that the animal/person has.

Compare to people. There are tiny, perfectly formed humans who you'd never know they were short until you see them in relationship to the environment. If we built a stage where all the furniture were 3/4 size, they'd appear to be average size on film. Extremely short (under 4'10") people may have a hormonal issue that is treatable but they are referred to by the medical community as having "proportional dwarfism", to differenciate from those who are just plain short.

Those who are afflicted with other types dwarfism do not look like the average person. They have short bodies, very short forearms and fingers, large heads and short legs (in one type).

Because there is no research, we don't know what dwarfism in chinchillas does. We don't know the long term impact on the health and well being of the animal. In humans, a cleft palate is one of the problems seen in a type of dwarfism. A cleft palate in a chinchilla would result in a failure to survive in a kit. Is every kit death being necropsied so we know why they are dying? Types of Dwarfism in humans causes an increase in respiratory problems from the lack of expansion area for the lungs. Is this the case with dwarf chinchillas? What about hydrocephalia? Again, it would manifest only in kit mortality and only really show well in necropsy.

'Eh, off my soapbox. People will do what they chose, no matter what I think of the ethical and moral complications.

[Karmie]

I didn't know that "miniature" and "dwarf" had distinct meanings. As trends go, though, "dwarf" will always be technically misused because of how common the word has become. Like dwarf hamsters should probably be called miniature hamsters, then, but the word has been applied incorrectly for so long that it's pretty much synonymous with miniature (to the lay person, like me :p ).

I don't know very much about breeding and genetics, but unless almost all miniature chinchillas suffer from health problems and defects, it's a trait that's going to be encouraged until a miniature chinchilla becomes just another variety of chinchillas that one can go to the store and buy. Since it sounds like not every chinchilla who carries the trait lives a normal and healthy life, I would feel terrible trying to breed for it, personally.

Whether or not its immoral to breed for a trait when only some of the kits you get will be healthy and others will be severely deformed or die... I'm sure you can argue for and against breeding for it. I'd need a really great argument to be convinced that it's a good practice or statistics that show that only a tiny percentage of all those bred suffer from anything, the same as how not all regular sized chin kits are born healthy.

[chinma]

I own a dwarf chin. As far as their health goes they have no more special problems than a normal sized chin does, well aside from the fact she will never be bred. There are dwarf chins and then there are just small chins. Dwarfs have a number of characteristics, such as shortened front limbs and face shape.

Most breeders will not breed a known dwarf line. As to others, I think it's similar to all pet breeding. It brings about new lines. That's how we ended with dogs like miniature dobermans.

Is it really a dwarf chin or is it a runt?

[HedgeMom]

I didn't know that "miniature" and "dwarf" had distinct meanings. As trends go, though, "dwarf" will always be technically misused because of how common the word has become. Like dwarf hamsters should probably be called miniature hamsters, then, but the word has been applied incorrectly for so long that it's pretty much synonymous with miniature (to the lay person, like me :p ).

I don't know very much about breeding and genetics, but unless almost all miniature chinchillas suffer from health problems and defects, it's a trait that's going to be encouraged until a miniature chinchilla becomes just another variety of chinchillas that one can go to the store and buy. Since it sounds like not every chinchilla who carries the trait lives a normal and healthy life, I would feel terrible trying to breed for it, personally.

Whether or not its immoral to breed for a trait when only some of the kits you get will be healthy and others will be severely deformed or die... I'm sure you can argue for and against breeding for it. I'd need a really great argument to be convinced that it's a good practice or statistics that show that only a tiny percentage of all those bred suffer from anything, the same as how not all regular sized chin kits are born healthy.

They are breeding for miniature chins, they are breeding the genetic defect of dwarfism.