Why no pedigree for pet only chins?

[leaughxp]

So I've been thinking about this a lot lately. For those of you who do not supply a pedigree for pet only chins, why not? I mean the ones you have info on but do not want bred for whatever reason. When I was first getting into chinchillas I thought is was because you should never breed a chin witthout a pedigree because that was what was said all over this board. However now my view has changed and now I think a pedigree doesn't really mean much if it just says your chin came from P34 and R12 or from Chile and Dusty doesn't tell you much if anything helpful. I have one chin with a partial pedigree but I know more about that chin than the other two because 1) Before I bought this chin, I asked for more info from breeders farther up the line and although they couldn't give me numbers I still got health info and 2) I had been paniking about possible health problem earlier this year and asked breeders again about certain chns in the pedigree and found out even more info. I also got some helpful info from a few breeders who are familiar with a certain breeder's lines. All is good and the chin is healthy but I think what if the chin had been sold as pet only and I was not given a pedigree? What if the breeder of the chin moved and I couldn't get a hold of her to notify or ask about a problem? What if the breeder of a chin farther up the pedigree couldn't notify the breeder of my chin that a health concern had come up in the lines? You would want to be notified if a chin bred by you had maloclusion or there is the possibility that it is in your lines right?

I really think every chin with known history should be sold with a pedigree that contains all contact info for every breeder of every chin on it and all known health info (when chin dies and what of, half sister furchewed, etc.). You could note the chin is for pet only and not to be bred. Afterall, not having a piece of paper isn't going to stop chins from mating and those who really want to breed will regardless if they have a pedigree or not. Do you really think not giving a pedigree prevents the chin from being bred?

[Vyxxin]

Well, to me...those numbers (RAF P34 for instance) not only tells me how old that chin is, but it also tells me who bred it. I can therefore easily contact RAF to get more information (health wise) if necessary. This applies to all numbered chins in a pedigree. You don't have to have specific information written on the pedigree about every chin on that pedigree to be able to get the information if needed.

In my case, if I deem a chin to not be breedable for whatever reason, I don't give a pedigree. I WILL give health information, but not the actual pedigree. In my opinion, this deters people from breeding the animal. Most responsible people out there are now looking for pedigrees....when a chinchilla doesn't have one, buyers are less likely to buy. This causes the breeders of such, unpedigreed animals, to be less likely to breed more unpedigreed chins. This is my theory. It doesn't outright prevent breeding, no, only spaying/neutering can do that...but when a person knows they'll be stuck with all the offspring because people don't want to buy them unpedigreed (because they won't know as much about the animal) then I think they'll think twice before breeding. ALSO, just because an animal is from a specific line does not mean anything. I can have a line of great animals...one bad animal pops up and is sold. You get that animal w/o a pedigree, okay...you search around and find out that the line the animal comes from is good...does that make it okay to breed this animal? NO, this is why a pedigree is important...because even good lines have bad "eggs" Same goes for buying chins from "good ranches" etc...etc...etc...everybody gets bad chins once in a while, just because a chin is from a specific line/breeder/rancher etc...does NOT make it a good animal. Only by looking at each animal in a pedigree can we determine if there are health problems in the line...and even that isn't 100% conclusive at all times.

[The Animal Farm]

So what do you do when someone buys a breedworthy chin but you know they are just going to keep in as a pet? A lot of my chins are breedable but their lot in life is just to be fat and happy. I like having the pedigree on my kids just as a reassurance. It doesn't mean they will not get sick etc but it does speak something of quality.

[Vyxxin]

Anytime I sell an animal that I deem to be of breeding quality I give the owner the full pedigree. If they choose not to breed it and just keep it as a pet, that's their choice. But they should be allowed to have the pedigree.

[chinkeep]

Pedigrees typically do not contain all the information that you are talking about. I know there are a couple of ranchers that do not give out pedigrees to anyone; so does that mean that you won't buy from them, or won't breed the animals that you do buy just because they won't hand out pedigrees? And I hate to sound rude, but if someone expected me to spend hours writing down every breeder in the lineage and their contact info and every piece of health information about an animal, and, and, and....well, selling to pet stores and pelting sound pretty dang good.

IMO, people put too much weight on pedigrees. Buying from reputable breeders or ranchers affords you a bit of assurance. They aren't going to purposely sell you a bad animal and risk their reputation; and even if you do get an animal from them that has health issues they are usually willing to replace the animal or work out something else. And I'm pretty sure that most breeders aren't going to write up the type of pedigrees that you are talking about. When I sell an animal, all I send along is the cage card which has animal ID, DOB and 2 generations - parents and grand parents; if there are/were health issues, it wouldn't be going out the door in the first place. If I'm selling a pet only animal I provide DOB only. Anyone who buys a chinchilla(s) from me can always contact me if a problem develops. JMO

[Chinchified]

I have to say, for me to make pedigrees for all of my kits would be a pain as one of the breeders I bought two of my chins from has since gone out of breeding and has moved. The other, it is not so hard to be more contact info, but what about the others? I mean I spoke to the breeder and have been assured my chins parentage (at least the ones on the pedigrees I obtained) are healthy. I am planning to make the most detailed pedigrees possible, but I have to say thus far it has been a large pain.

[Spoof]

I keep seeing stuff about "how much effort" and "too much time" to make pedigrees.

If you keep decent books it takes you less than 5 minutes to write up a 2-3 generation ped. I've seen people with anywhere between 400 and 1500 animals do it. If you DON'T know your lineage well enough to look at the lines and know why you put that animal in breeding, chances are, I probably don't want your animal. I watched a 78 year old guy go through his herd, pull animals, and start rattling off random facts about the males and why he chose them. That was impressive. Even more so when he pulled out his books. Talk about immaculate record keeping.

Yes, I know of the few ranchers that don't keep lineage. That is their choice, it works for them. It doesn't work for me with the small genepool available here.

I sell all animals with a pedigree if I have one. If the animal has something so bad in its lines that you would consider it non-breedable, then you should probably take the appropriate action and get it altered.

[chinmandan]

I know quite a few of the big guys have said and I agree. I'm looking at the animal in front of me! You can't enter a pedigree into a show! If pedigrees were of paramount importance why do we even stress the animals out to take to show? Why dont we just drag a piece of paper saying LOO or VVCR on it? Both are ranchers with supreme lines! The fact is you can have just fantastic parents that produce junk offspring! Lines that dont mesh theory. Pedigrees have some importance so as to not breed too closely without knowing and so you have a mild prediction of what traits the offspring will Probably have.
Just a thought,
Dan Jensen

[Midwest Exotics]

i give pedigrees to anyone who would like one, pet or breeding. I just make sure to let them know that even though it has a pedigree that doesnt mean its BREEDING quality.

[Gcc]

I really think every chin with known history should be sold with a pedigree that contains all contact info for every breeder of every chin on it and all known health info (when chin dies and what of, half sister furchewed, etc.). You could note the chin is for pet only and not to be bred. Afterall, not having a piece of paper isn't going to stop chins from mating and those who really want to breed will regardless if they have a pedigree or not. Do you really think not giving a pedigree prevents the chin from being bred?

# 1 this can't be done because that is a privacy issue, # 2 not all contact info stays the same, and creates alot of messy paperwork #3 pedigrees are overrated. #4 Poop happens and chins get sick... think if you had info for four generations on a pedigree you think that the great great grand dam's breeder cares that your chin has an issue? Probably not... if there is alot of out crossing this can be almost impossible to tell what line brought about the issue or even if it is genetic, #5 If it is a pet chin, take it to the vet, get it fixed up and get on with your life. Pedigrees are just a piece of paper designed to give general info on the chins background so educated breeders can make educated descisions on what chins to select for pairing with the individual, when you have a pet chin this becomes null and void.

You can't make it industry standard to include the phone nubmers of every breeder, how easy does this sound?