What do you think of this as a fiber source?

[Clownstrike]

Hi all,

I found these in the local pet store and bought some to try for my hedgie (11 week old male):

Kaytee rabbit chew biscuits (http://www.kaytee.com/products/mammals/?pid=56620&aid=all&pcid=2)

I've read a number of mentions of hedgies net getting enough fiber and some people sprinkle oatmeal or grapenuts in with their food. This looked like something safe to try. I put one in with his food last night and it appears that he nibbled on it a bit. Didn't devour it, but didn't reject it. I weighed the nuggets and found that one nugget is about the same weight as 4-5 dry kibbles.

What do you think? Any reason you can see that this would be inappropriate to offer? Thanks for your opinion.

Huffs,
Tim

[HedgeMom]

Those aren't an appropriate fiber source for hedgehogs. They are intended for ingestion by rodents/lagomorphs, not insectivores.

In addition, they contain ethoxyquin, which is annecdotally linked to cancer and reproductions problems in animals.

And why, pray tell, do you give something to your animal first and THEN ask if it's ok? Suppose it had been toxic?

[Clownstrike]

Thanks for the tip on the ethoxyquin Hedgemom. I appreciate that information. I understand that the nuggets are intended for lagomorphs, not insectivores. But neither are the cat foods that we all feed our hedgies. And, in fact, breeders seem to spurn most of the hedgehog foods intended for insectivores. So, with hedgies at least, I don't put much stock in the "intended" part of the labelling. I was looking more at the ingredients. None of the primary food ingredients look inappropriate based on what I've learned so far. But, like I said, I do appreciate your tip on the ethoxyquin. That's exactly the sort of info I was hoping for.

Toxic? That's a bit harsh, don't you think? A few nibbles on a little rabbit biscuit? I don't think my judgement is that weak. But even if it is, I guess it's still all I've got to work with.

Tim

[FiaSpice]

I've heard that you can give them All-Bran (please correct me if I'm wrong) it seems safer than those "coockies"

[HedgeMom]

Thanks for the tip on the ethoxyquin Hedgemom. I appreciate that information. I understand that the nuggets are intended for lagomorphs, not insectivores. But neither are the cat foods that we all feed our hedgies. And, in fact, breeders seem to spurn most of the hedgehog foods intended for insectivores. So, with hedgies at least, I don't put much stock in the "intended" part of the labelling. I was looking more at the ingredients. None of the primary food ingredients look inappropriate based on what I've learned so far. But, like I said, I do appreciate your tip on the ethoxyquin. That's exactly the sort of info I was hoping for.

Toxic? That's a bit harsh, don't you think? A few nibbles on a little rabbit biscuit? I don't think my judgement is that weak. But even if it is, I guess it's still all I've got to work with.

Tim

There are no true "insectivore" diets. Commercial hedgehog foods are just poor guesses. That's why we feed what we guess is as nutritious food as possible.

As far as toxic, the rabbit bisquits contain Alfalfa. Some animals cannot digest alfalfa. I'm not sure about hedgehogs, but rats can't. I know that there is annecdotal information that hedgehogs have ingested alfalfa with no lasting damage but I'm not going to risk it. My point was that you should ask first. Once you'd already given the food, it really doesn't matter what we say about it, the damage could be undoable.

Suppose this had been Macadamia nuts? By the time someone told you they were toxic, you might have had irreparable damage to your animal. Or rhubarb leaves. Or tomato leaves. Or suppose she ate the kernel out of the middle of an apricot?

My only point was that if you are unsure, ask FIRST, not past tense.

[Clownstrike]

Hedgemom - I have no intention of feeding any of those things to my hedgie. I guess you've confirmed that my judgement is pretty good. - Tim

[Clownstrike]

As far as toxic, the rabbit bisquits contain Alfalfa. Some animals cannot digest alfalfa. I'm not sure about hedgehogs, but rats can't. I know that there is annecdotal information that hedgehogs have ingested alfalfa with no lasting damage but I'm not going to risk it. My point was that you should ask first. Once you'd already given the food, it really doesn't matter what we say about it, the damage could be undoable.

So I took your advice regarding the alfalfa, Hedgemom, and started to do a little research. Rather shockingly, this is one of the first things I found (right here at CnQ):

http://www.chins-n-quills.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86795

You may want to reread the pertinent portion of your own post:

"Compare this with Felidae, an ALL NATURAL cat food made with human grade ingredients. Which means that every ingredient could have been sold for human consumption instead of animal consumption.

Three of the first five ingredients are wholesome meat sources, not byproducts. The grain is plain brown rice, not used up Brewer's rice. Then some fat for flavor and two more protein sources. Flax meal for the antioxidants and then fiber in the form of healthy alfalfa. The probiotics are added as probiotics so you know they are active. Not like the Purina which lists only the yogurt. Did the yogurt have active cultures? You don't know b/c they don't list them. Most likely the yogurt was out of sell date human food or waste yogurt not fit for human consuption.

Seriously, learn to read labels and understand what you're reading before you feed it to your pet."

So last November you were actively feeding your hedghogs alfalfa, and promoting the feeding of alfalfa to others! Now you chastise me for feeding my hedgie a few nibbles of alfalfa and say "I'm not going to risk it"!?! I'm afraid you've already risked it. Do you still feed Felidae to your hedgies?

This level of adamant hypocrisy amazes me.

Tim

[Clownstrike]

Which is it Hedgemom? Inquiring minds want to know:

ALFALFA - Good or bad for hedgies?

(A polite admission of your own fallibility would be fine)

Tim

[HedgeMom]

Which is it Hedgemom? Inquiring minds want to know:

ALFALFA - Good or bad for hedgies?

(A polite admission of your own fallibility would be fine)

Tim

Let's see... comparing a rabbit treat made of mostly alfalfa vs a cat food that makes up less than a quarter of the diet that I feed that has such a minimal amount of impact that it would be negligible?

I still don't know that it's safe to feed it the way you were. You're comparing apples to oranges. Or apple flavoring to whole apples, if you will.

I am completely fallible. What I'm not is irresponsible or reckless.

[Clownstrike]

It's not apples and oranges. We have no idea how much alfalfa is involved. What we do know is that you specifically knocked me for feeding a few nibbles of alfalfa one time, when you currently feed it on a daily basis! That couldn't be more hypocritical. Now, I don't blame you for forgetting that Felidae has alfalfa. And I'm sure it's perfectly safe. But I do think you were very quick to chastise for the sake of chastisement itself (since apparently there appears to be nothing terribly wrong with alfalfa in the hedgie diet). I just hope you think about that the next time you choose to jump on someone.

Regards,
Tim